The Trinity

The Trinity

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Lon

Lon

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
No....I do hear what you are saying about "with" denoting different and "was" denoting same. But to say that verse shows GOD having three separate spirits is a stretch honestly.
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:nope: On both counts. First, scripture should be the only point where we proceed. For right now, you have two and one. It matters whether you agree or disagree at this venture. Again, what does the scripture say verbatim? Let's believe what that says. :up:


popsthebuilder said:
GOD is all encompassing. His Word is His and Him.
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Great! Verse 2 "He was with God in the beginning." John is making SURE we get it. John 1:1-18 :think:
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Lon said:
Unitarians, Arians.



Not sure why LifeisGood is arguing with you but I saw where it actually started to go South so thought I'd jump in for the meaningful part of the conversation as well as post some scriptures (we all need scriptures). :e4e:


I didn't just post a lot of scriptures??? :think:


It 'shows' different individuals. The Son praying to the Father, for instance. Scripture 'plainly says' that the Word was 'with' God, and 'was God.'
How is that possible? :idunno: BUT I don't second-guess or go beyond it. Clearly, right there in John 1:1, 'with' (two or more?) and "was" (same). :think: It is as clear as that.


I disagree, even where my own logic is concerned. We all generally believe 'our' logic is logic. :nono: Why? Because we ALL are finite and limited. We only know what we can encapsulate in our finite minds and MUST trust God for a lot of truth. NO logic will settle John 1:1. It is very clear in conveyance but it is a 'logical' conundrum for you and I. It is well beyond your or my ability to quantify (logic). It is God's logic. He doesn't think like us. Numbers 23:19 We do the best we can and sometimes can grasp the scriptures well enough to explain them. John 4:22


This is your opportunity to discuss those scripture then. You realize, before even starting, that most of Christianity is Triune, though, I'm sure. We all have read and know the scriptures so it will need to be thorough and convincing and make 'logical' scriptural sense. John 1:1 is a real hurdle for Modalists One-ness Pentecostals and Arian/Unitarians. That one verse is God's revelation of Who He is.


:think: I wonder if you have read through the Triune thread or even all the verses in this thread for that matter.


I am VERY convinced by about half of what Modalists believe, and about half of what an Arian believes. Both believe scripture, but to me, seem not to be familiar enough each, with the rest of the Bible. -Lon
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I do not abide by the doctrine of any man or group of men, or sect, or organized religion.

I find that my familiarity with the whole of the Bible and the understanding of such as a whole generally far out measures the breadth of which others (namely what I think is referred to as grace alone) seem to allow into their own doctrines from the Bible. What I am trying to say is that my understanding is of the whole Bible, without cherry picking or throwing out any of it.


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God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Lon said:
:nope: On both counts. First, scripture should be the only point where we proceed. For right now, you have two and one. It matters whether you agree or disagree at this venture. Again, what does the scripture say verbatim? Let's believe what that says. :up:


Great! Verse 2 "He was with God in the beginning." John is making SURE we get it. John 1:1-18 :think:
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He was WITH GOD and IS GOD. There s ONLY ONE GOD and He IS the Father.

That is what the truth says.

Stop reading things into it that are not there.

That is how you fell into falseness.

You have to honor God's word more than what you are doing.

The words from God are amazing and life and truth, and you can't play with His words and disrespect them the way you do.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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God's Truth said:
He was WITH GOD and IS GOD. There s ONLY ONE GOD and He IS the Father.

That is what the truth says.

Stop reading things into it that are not there.

That is how you fell into falseness.

You have to honor God's word more than what you are doing.

The words from God are amazing and life and truth, and you can't play with His words and disrespect them the way you do.
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John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


1 John 1:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)


You are wrong again as usual;

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Bright Raven said:
John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


1 John 1:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)


You are wrong again as usual;

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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Let's take this slower.

The scriptures PLAINLY say there is one God and He is the Father, do you agree?

The scriptures plainly say about Jesus that he is the WORD of God, agree?

The scripture plainly say that he was with God, agree?

The scriptures also say he was God, agree?

Well let's take this even slower and examine you.

You are a human; your words are with you, and are you. Do you agree to all that?

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son of Man.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
I do not abide by the doctrine of any man or group of men, or sect, or organized religion.

I find that my familiarity with the whole of the Bible and the understanding of such as a whole generally far out measures the breadth of which others (namely what I think is referred to as grace alone) seem to allow into their own doctrines from the Bible. What I am trying to say is that my understanding is of the whole Bible, without cherry picking or throwing out any of it.
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I know my bible well. Right now, we are talking about John 1:1 and exactly what it says.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
God's Truth said:
Let's take this slower.

The scriptures PLAINLY say there is one God and He is the Father, do you agree?

The scriptures plainly say about Jesus that he is the WORD of God, agree?

The scripture plainly say that he was with God, agree?

The scriptures also say he was God, agree?

Well let's take this even slower and examine you.

You are a human; your words are with you, and are you. Do you agree to all that?

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son of Man.
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WRONG

The scriptures say that Jesus was in the beginning with the Father.[/COLOR]
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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God's Truth said:
That is what I said.

Jesus is the words God the Father speaks; he was with God and is God.

Are your words not with you?

Are your words not you?
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You said that Jesus is the Father. I didn't, you did. No where in scripture is Jesus specifically called Father.

2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Bright Raven said:
You said that Jesus is the Father. I didn't, you did. No where in scripture is Jesus specifically called Father.

2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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Answer my questions to you.

Are you human?

Do you speak?

Is what you say your words?

Are those words with you?

Are those words you?

Get it now?
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
God's Truth said:
That is what I said.

Jesus is the words God the Father speaks; he was with God and is God.

Are your words not with you?

Are your words not you?
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:chuckle: Jesus is a man! The Word incarnate!

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
glorydaz said:
It's not "words". Word is His name.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.​

GET IT NOW? :chew:

Don't you feel silly? :listen:
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Jesus is the Word of God because he speaks the words of God.

You haven't thought about this very carefully.
That is why you don't have understanding.

See Mark 4:24.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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glorydaz said:
Nope, He was the WORD in the beginning, before He ever came in human flesh.

The WORD BECAME FLESH. Pay attention.
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I said that Jesus was the WORD of God in the beginning.

You need to pay attention.

By the way, you gave me a neg rep and said, "Too proud to ever admit you're wrong."

You want to tell me when you admitted you were wrong? Do you know about the scripture where Jesus says with the way you judge you will be judged and not to be a hypocrite? Looks like you should stop preaching that we do not have to obey.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
I said that Jesus was the WORD of God in the beginning.

You need to pay attention.

By the way, you gave me a neg rep and said, "Too proud to ever admit you're wrong."

You want to tell me when you admitted you were wrong? Do you know about the scripture where Jesus says with the way you judge you will be judged and not to be a hypocrite? Looks like you should stop preaching that we do not have to obey.
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If you said that in the beginning, then why did you change it to "words". :popcorn:

Don't you know the difference between a name (Word) who was with God and was God to words that are spoken?
 
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