glorydaz
Well-known member
I totally agree with that.
It's certainly understandable, though, that many would think of water baptism as a symbol of something.
Death and resurrection being the primary one, I would guess.
The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
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It's certainly understandable, though, that many would think of water baptism as a symbol of something.
Death and resurrection being the primary one, I would guess.
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Israel's water baptism symbolized cleansing the priests and NOT the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, that's true. I'm just saying it's what many people think when they get water baptized.
I believe I can answer this:
The word Paul used for "hope" here is a bit different in meaning than the "hope" we use today. By that I mean that while it's translated as "hope" correctly, it has a different definition than the kind of hope we have and use today.
We use the word "hope" to describe a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen, or in the way that we want something to happen or be the case.
However, in Paul's time, "hope" has a meaning more along the lines of an expectation, something we are confident will happen, that is certain to happen but we have to wait for.
| Strong's g1680 - Lexical: ἐλπίς - Transliteration: elpis - Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine - Phonetic Spelling: el-pece' - Definition: hope, expectation, trust, confidence. - Origin: From a primary elpo (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstractly or concretely) or confidence. - Usage: faith, hope. - Translated as (count): hope (49), a hope (2), in hope (1), of hope (1). |
In other words, Paul is basically saying that by putting this metaphorical helmet on, we should have confidence that it will protect us. It's practically a guarantee.
False, if one is in the Body of Christ.
People can be called by what they do.
People who lie, liars; people who steal, theives; people who murder, murderers; etc.
People who sin: Sinners.
People who are saved: Christians.
If we're dead to the law, the law has no hold on us. We're like the woman whose husband has died, she is no longer bound to him. She is released from him, as Paul writes in Romans 7:1-6.
Thus, while it is true that we still sin, we cannot be called sinners, because we are dead to the law. We are identified in Christ! Christ is not a sinner!
Paul writes:
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. - Romans 7:15-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans7:15-25&version=NKJV
Wow, I never expected to hear that from anyone.
It is written..."For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" (Rom 2:14-15)
Does your conscience counter the law of God much?
If not, then the law is written in your heart.
Not at all, as I walk in the light.
It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Did Christ suffer for you?
He suffered for me, and as I have been baptized into Him, I have suffered with Him.
I can, and do, keep the commandments of Jesus Christ...both of them...Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
It is written, in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
No flesh, no lusts, no sin.
I agree.
And both are mentioned by Peter in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
One baptism done by men and the other done by God.
Both necessary for salvation, as the Holy Ghost will not inhabit a polluted "temple".
Hardly, as one can't happen without the other.
By the grace of God, men can remain true to both their consciences and to the law of God. (I'm not talking about circumcision, and dietary, and labor, and feast keeping regulations.)
Is this in the bible?..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
This?..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
This?..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
They get baptized for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
They get baptized to kill the old man. (Rom 6:6)..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
They get baptized to experience the circumcision done without hands. (Col 2:11-13)..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"
I thank God for His graceful gift of water baptism for the remission of sins.
Yes, "hope" means "hope".
And in 1 Thes 5:8 that hope is of salvation.
Why would he have us hoping for something we already had?
You may not realize it, but you have a doctrine that introduced sin into Christ.
That is not possible.
Paul preached the first step first, the gospel, before the second and third steps, repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Step one before anything else.
Nothing except that that is when the body of Christ was told how to have their past sins remitted and how to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost .
If it can help me live without sin, it will be useful.
Hmmm.
What it did was deprive me of my baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins without providing any replacement.
I don't want to keep walking around with all the old man's baggage.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Amen, and it's a sure and certain hope because we have the earnest of the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You need to stop now before you are called a heretic. You're darn close in my book.
The blood of Christ has cleansed us from all sin. True believers have the Jesus Christ IN US.
Who are you to dare question our Great God?
glorydaz
Well-known member
You don't even know what you're posting or what you're disagreeing with.
In fact, I said my God given conscience.
The Law is NOT written in my heart. I have the Holy Spirit and the love of God has been shed abroad on my heart.
No, you have no concept of what the light is.
Ah, you poor baby. You've suffered with Christ. How could our Lord ever made it without your help.
Now you're lying.
You don't keep either of those commandments.
If you did, you would not be preaching false doctrine and denying the Gospel of Salvation.
Ah, so you think YOU have crucified the flesh.... You need to go back and start at the beginning.
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, you have a few verses there that you've mashed all together. Making a mockery of the Bible....
You think Paul is saying something he isn't, and you claim John is speaking to you.
A piece of advice. Try reading Paul in context.
You'll find out that members of the body of Christ rely totally on the righteousness of Christ.
Our own "righteousness" will never get us saved.
In fact, our own "righteousness" will prevent us from being saved.
We must put our faith in the righteousness of Christ......salvation is not of ourselves lest anyone boast.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm wondering where you got this doctrine.
In the first place receiving the "gift of the Holy Ghost" is not the same as being indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit came upon people even in the OT. THIS, however, is proof that God has purchased us with His own blood.
A "baptism" done by men is works. There are works and there is grace. You cannot have both.
Eph. 1:13-14
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why do you refuse to put your faith in the finished work of the cross?
It is God who has begun a good work in us....and it is HE that will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
Philipians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
You need to realize the we are God's workmanship. Stop trying to steal glory for yourself by twisting scripture.
Water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism are two different things. Water baptism does not give new life, being born again by infilling the nature of Christ by Holy Spirit baptism is what saves sinners.