The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[marke]

No, faith is not something we come up with ourselves.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Romans 10:17

The gift of faith is given to those who meet God's requirements for the gift.

 

[marke]

By grace---it is purely the grace of God that saves anyone.
Through faith----believing and trusting in the person and work of Jesus, is necessary
Which is the gift of God. In His grace He gives the faith. Otherwise faith would be something we have to come up with ourselves.

God gives the gift of faith to those who meet His requirements for the gift. If a sinner wants the baptism of the Holy Spirit then he must first bring forth fruits meet for repentance before God.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

 

[marke]

You will need to back that up with scriptures.
Paul mentioned only the works of the Law not being necessary for salvation.
Circumcision and dietary laws come to mind.

I have been baptized into what Jesus did on the cross.
I died there with Christ, was buried with Him, and was raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:3-7 spell it out, with verse 7 supplying the proof..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

As I see salvation occurring only after my name is found in the book of life, on the day of judgement, my salvation is still pending.
So all I do is "for salvation".
If I commit murder, tell a lie, or steal from someone, my faith is made void.

If your faith is real your faith will lead you away from sin but your eternal life is not dependent on your success in remaining free from sin.

 

[marke]

I have been free of the Law of Moses for nearly fourteen years.
As it is written..."Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Tim 9-10)
I stopped all of that when my flesh was crucified with Christ...at my water baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and I was raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:3-6 details it.
Gal 5:24 makes reference to it..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

There is no condemnation for those who have been born again but there are still besetting sins for believers to deal with after they are saved.

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 

[Right Divider]

The gift of faith is given to those who meet God's requirements for the gift.

Do you have any scripture to support this claim?

 

[marke]

No.
No it isn't. You call it force, I call it grace.
Well plenty of people besides me believe, but that aside, do you believe? Is that because poured His grace over you, or is it because you were smart enough to make the right choice?

Are you sure about that, or did it just feel that way to you because you are a human and think like a human and can only see things, (like all humans) from a human perspective?
So His grace was the message, not love itself?



Yes choosing is a work if that choosing is of a person's own volition that acquires salvation for them. We do not choose to have faith. In my doctrine a person is given the faith, then they hear the gospel, or it is given to them when they hear the gospel, and when they hear it, they believe it. Then they choose Christ to worship and follow.

No sinner gets saved without first loving God and loving God is not a work by humans seeking reimbursement for their labor in God's eyes.

 

[marke]

Do you have any scripture to support this claim?

There is a reason that sinners are told to first bring forth works meet for repentance because God does not give grace to sinners who have no interest in abandoning their sins.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

 

[marke]

As I don't believe salvation will be assured till we hear our names are in the book of life on the day of judgment, I will depend on Him until my last moment on earth without regard for my final determination.

If a person is not saved and only thinks he is then he will find out in the end that his faith was dead and eternal life was not his.

 

[Right Divider]

There is a reason that sinners are told to first bring forth works meet for repentance because God does not give grace to sinners who have no interest in abandoning their sins.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

You claimed that "faith is a gift". Please support that claim with scripture.

 

[marke]

Acts 19:4-5 says..."Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
So he does indeed tell men to "get wet".

Me too, unless further sin shows I had not really repented of sin.
We can't build a relationship with God that is based on our lies.

There is only one baptism God does, but men do another.
That doesn't even take into account the other 5 or 6 baptisms listed in the bible.

I agree, a dead man can't commit sin.
What we fail to agree on is that our (water) baptism into Christ provides our death, burial, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
The crucified man, with his affections and lusts, cannot rise again. (Gal 5:24)

I am no longer a sinner, thanks to the grace of God who supplied the doctrine of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Why didn't your doctrine provide the same grace?

Water baptism is an act of obedience by Christians after they are saved, not in order to be saved.

 

[Right Divider]

Water baptism is an act of obedience by Christians after they are saved, not in order to be saved.

Water baptism is NOT for the body of Christ. Paul NEVER says that we should get wet.

 

[marke]

I won't usurp the judgement of God by claiming I have something not yet awarded.

You cannot know you are saved if you have not been born again. But you can know you are saved if you have been born again.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[marke]

Plus the grace and new nature to resist the devil so he flees from me.

There are no "present sins".
More sin would manifest that my repentance from sin was a lie to God.
We can't build a relationship with God that is based on our lies.
If I don't remain faithful till the day of judgement, I will be sent to the lake of fire.
Thankfully though, Jesu gave us the word sin John 8:32-34..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
I know the truth, and it made me free from committing sin.
Thanks be to God !

Noah was not saved at the end because he did not let go of his hold on the side of the ark during the flood and Christians are not saved by thinking they must remain free from sin. Christians who think they no longer have sins to deal with in their lives are deceived.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[marke]

Acts 19:4-5 says..."Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
So he does indeed tell men to "get wet".

Paul never said "I thank God I never helped any of you get saved by preaching Jesus" but he did say

1 Corinthians 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

 

[Hoping]

I made a decision based on hearing the preaching of the Gospel.


No, I believed the Gospel.

I didn't say I was. I saw it was raining and believed what I saw.

In the same way, I heard the Gospel message of salvation, and believed what I heard.

Good.
We agree that "belief" isn't given as a gift from God.
Especially to just some few chosen ones.

 

[Hoping]

I don't believe you. What you're preaching is some kind of odd mixture of law and grace.

Isn't the law written on your heart?
And I don't mean feast keeping and dietary laws.

So you don't believe what John says here? And you have no assurance of salvation?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

What does the verse before it say?
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
If I am walking in the light/God, and all my sins have been cleansed by the blood of Christ, why can't I say I have no sin?
In 1 John 1, John is using an alternating verse method that juxtaposes two different conditions.
In this case, it is those who walk in light against those who walk in darkness.
If I am walking in darkness, I cannot say I have no sin.
If I am walking in the light/God, I can't have any sin.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 are for those who walk in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 are addressing those who walk in darkness.

1 John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

There you go !
Keeping His commandments makes you a non-sinner.

 

[marke]

Isn't the law written on your heart?
And I don't mean fest keeping and dietary laws.

What does the verse before it say?
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
If I am walking in the light/God, and all my sins have been cleansed by the blood of Christ, why can't I say I have no sin?
In 1 John 1, John is using an alternating verse method that juxtaposes two different conditions.
In this case, it is those who walk in light against those who walk in darkness.
If I am walking in darkness, I cannot say I have no sin.
If I am walking in the light/God, I can't have any sin.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 are for those who walk in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 are addressing those who walk in darkness.

There you go !
Keeping His commandments makes you a non-sinner.

If you confess your sins and are forgiven then you are once again free from sin. But what happens when you sin again? You will sin again so you will again have to confess your sins to be "clean every whit" again.

1 John 1

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Hoping]

I did answer, but I'll be happy to elaborate.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
We are baptized BY THE SPIRIT into Christ.

How does that fit Rom 6:5?
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
It is by our immersion into water that satisfies the "figure" of planting.
The gift of God of the Holy Ghost doesn't fit the figure.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Those are two different baptisms.

Oh dear. You're denying scripture. You need to check yourself, and you can do that by believing what the word says quite clearly.

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to.

Then you're in the company of the Jews. They, too, will have to wait.

I'm happy to comply with scriptures that say we will be judged on the last day.
Your POV is that it has already happened.
It hasn't yet.

The armor of God? Beautifully, just as God intended.

The helmet of salvation is a present reality for those in the body of Christ.
But you go ahead and wait. Perhaps you'll eventually endure long enough.

Thought the scripture in Eph 6 doesn't say it, the one in 1 Thes 5:8 does..."But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."
If Paul already had his salvation, why did he say "hope of salvation"?
If we already had our salvation, why did Peter write..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
I won't claim something that I don't already have.
I still have life remaining, wherein I may stand, or fall...heaven forbid.

 

[Hoping]

Again your imagination is driving your "understanding".
Paul did not TELL anyone to get water baptized. Paul was describing what John the Baptizer was doing.
Verse 5 is about what those that heard JOHN did.

Nonsense. You sin whether you know it or not.

You are a double-minder person. In the body of Christ there is ONE baptism and there is NO water involved.

Indeed, baptism is NOT just water.

There is NO water in Romans 6. Again, you imagination and your belief in falsehoods controls you.

I am not controlled by sin, that does not mean that I never sin.

Your doctrine is confused. You do not understand figures of speech.

Sorry, we are on different paths.

 

[Hoping]

Noah was not saved at the end because he did not let go of his hold on the side of the ark during the flood and Christians are not saved by thinking they must remain free from sin. Christians who think they no longer have sins to deal with in their lives are deceived.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

That verse, and verses 6 and 10, are addressing to those who walk in darkness.
1 John 1:7..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Verses 5, 7, and 9 are addressing those who walk in the light...which verse 5 says is God.
As there is no sin in God, there must not be any in those who walk in Him.

The deception is in those who think they are "in Christ" while sin is in them.