The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Right Divider]

What do you consider a "work" for salvation?
This is what Paul considered a "work" for salvation...circumcision, dietary law, feast keeping, tithing, and any other precept of the Mosaic Law.
Unfortunately, some have included repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and even enduring faithfully till the end as "works" for salvation.

As I explained, you do NOT understand those scriptures that you mash all together.

Do you include obedience to God as a "work' to be shunned?

Of course not.

I don't.

We, in the body of Christ, are justified by faith and not works of any kind.

Paul explains that in Romans 4.

 

[Hoping]

As I explained, you do NOT understand those scriptures that you mash all together.

Of course not.

We, in the body of Christ, are justified by faith and not works of any kind.

Paul explains that in Romans 4.

You are correct.

Usually when I see a thread concerning "works" it is an attempt by some to establish that rejection of sin is a no-no.
Which just leads to more sin, and sinners will not find their names in the book of life on the last day.

If those who faster the "salvation without works" doctrine would just include the words "of the Law" in their initial discussion, there would be no dilemma.
Don't you agree?

What do you consider a "work" for salvation?

 

[Right Divider]

What do you consider a "work" for salvation?

Anything but faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Rom 5:1-2 (KJV)
(5:1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (5:2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[Hoping]

Anything but faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

As the "work" has been finished, anything we actually do is not a "work for salvation".
So baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins and our sanctification and justification, or repentance from sin are not outlawed.
And living without sin is a byproduct of the finished work on the cross.
This I can agree with.

 

[Right Divider]

As the "work" has been finished, anything we actually do is not a "work for salvation".

You've changed your story.... good.

So baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins and our sanctification and justification, or repentance from sin are not outlawed.

There is ONE baptism in the body of Christ and there is no water involved. 1 Cor 12:13

And living without sin is a byproduct of the finished work on the cross.
This I can agree with.

Jesus died for our sins. That does not mean that we become immediately sinless, but we should certainly avoid sin.

 

[beloved57]

When one goes down the "credit" slide, all "credit" goes to God.
But can I be saved if I don't want to be saved?
Have we no say in our redemption or salvation?

You still dont get it even after me explaining.

 

[Hoping]

You've changed your story.... good.

Not really changed.
I'm just trying to apply some sense to that doctrine.

There is ONE baptism in the body of Christ and there is no water involved. 1 Cor 12:13

The one God does requires no water, but the one men do, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, does require water.

Jesus died for our sins. That does not mean that we become immediately sinless, but we should certainly avoid sin.

As the old me was crucified with Christ at my "immersion" into His death and burial, I was instantly sinless, a new creature, raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
As it is written in Rom 6:3-7..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin."

Freed from sin.

 

[Hoping]

You still don't get it even after me explaining.

Maybe your explanation wasn't sufficient.?
Will people who don't want to be saved find their names in the book of life on the last day?
Satan believes in Jesus Christ and in all that Jesus did, so is he saved?
Or is there more the devil must do?

 

[Right Divider]

The one God does requires no water, but the one men do, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, does require water.

The "one that men do" is completely inapproriate in the present dispensation of God.

 

[Arial]

Will people who don't want to be saved find their names in the book of life on the last day?

Of course not. I have not read all this thread as it was started so long ago, just checking latest activity. So why do you ask that question?

 

[Hoping]

The "one that men do" is completely inapproriate in the present dispensation of God.

I'm sorry you feel that way, as it is the only way to undergo the circumcision done without hands (Col 2:12-13), and the only way to kill the old man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
Were I not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Acts 2:38), I would be still full of sins. Thus preventing me from being a sanctified temple of the Holy Ghost.
It would have prevented me from being perfect. (Rom 6:7)

 

[Hoping]

Of course not. I have not read all this thread as it was started so long ago, just checking latest activity. So why do you ask that question?

It was a response to some who imply that God gives a gift, (salvation), and that is the end of our participation in our own Godly walk in Christ.
They fashion a gift with no reception of or maintaining of it.

I will add, that if God gives us salvation without any kind of change on our part, then some are saved without any knowledge of being saved.
The devils believe, (the posters only requirement for salvation), so they too must be saved... if the poster's POV is true.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm sorry you feel that way, as it is the only way to undergo the circumcision done without hands (Col 2:12-13), and the only way to kill the old man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)

That is nonsense. The ONE baptism that Paul tells us about is a SPIRIT baptism. No water needed.

Were I not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Acts 2:38), I would be still full of sins.

You do not understand right division nor dispensations.

I do not need a water ceremony to have my sins forgiven. Jesus dies for ALL of my sins.

Thus preventing me from being a sanctified temple of the Holy Ghost.

You are a Bible masher; combining things that need to be kept separate.

It would have prevented me from being perfect. (Rom 6:7)

Nope. The body of Christ is NOT baptized into Christ by a Hebrew water ceremony.

We are baptized by one spirit into the body.

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Hoping]

That is nonsense. The ONE baptism that Paul tells us about is a SPIRIT baptism. No water needed.

That is indeed the one God does.

You do not understand right division nor dispensations.
I do not need a water ceremony to have my sins forgiven. Jesus dies for ALL of my sins.

I'ld hate to think Peter was wrong in Acts 2:38...or Ananias in Acts 22:16.
it also reminds me of 1 Cor 16:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Washed, in the name of Jesus Christ AND by the Spirit of our God.

You are a Bible masher; combining things that need to be kept separate.

I see the bible as a single work.

Nope. The body of Christ is NOT baptized into Christ by a Hebrew water ceremony.

Kinda hard to believe that when Rom 6:3 says the very words "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
I suppose Philip used different words to the Ethiopian eunuch that he water baptized in the desert.
But as long as it was done in the name of Jesus Christ, his past sins were remitted.

We are baptized by one spirit into the body.

I agree, if the body you write of is the congregation of believers.
Also known as the body of Christ.
But to be "immersed" directly into Christ requires water baptism.
Water baptism is also the only way to crucify the flesh and start walking in the Spirit.
As it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

How does your doctrine cover that crucifixion?

 

[Arial]

It was a response to some who imply that God gives a gift, (salvation), and that is the end of our participation in our own Godly walk in Christ.
They fashion a gift with no reception of or maintaining of it.

I will add, that if God gives us salvation without any kind of change on our part, then some are saved without any knowledge of being saved.
The devils believe, (the posters only requirement for salvation), so they too must be saved... if the poster's POV is true.

Thanks for clarifying for me.

The gift, in my understanding of Eph 2:8-9, is faith, and it is given purely through the grace of God and therefore does not originate from within us. And it is through this faith that we are saved. And the faith that is necessary is to believe in the person and work of Christ, (Son of God, Son of man, without sin, dying a substitutionary death on the cross atoning for the sins of those who believe, being raised from the dead, ascending back to the Father, to put it into its elemental nutshell.)

Grace means it is completely unmerited by any or our works, and is also from only the goodness and mercy of God, and not something He owes us.

It is this salvation, this union with Christ and His righteousness, that produces the fruit of good works. (Vine-branches) If there is no fruit (change that begins to exhibit in our life and attitudes as obedience to God, and in increasing measure and endurance unto the end) there is no union. The faith professed is not genuine.

No one can be saved without hearing the gospel and believing it. It is the gospel that we must have faith in in order to be saved. The devil has heard and believes it is true, but he hates it, and spends his time trying to deceive people. He wants the worship that belongs to only God.

 

[Right Divider]

That is indeed the one God does.

Yes, it is the ONE baptism what Paul tells us is for the body of Christ.
No Hebrew water ceremony required.

I'ld hate to think Peter was wrong in Acts 2:38...or Ananias in Acts 22:16.

Once again... different dispensation. Not for the body of Christ which is a new creature.

it also reminds me of 1 Cor 16:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Not "washed with water"... washed by the blood of Christ.

Washed, in the name of Jesus Christ AND by the Spirit of our God.

Again, Paul says that there is ONE baptism... not two.

I see the bible as a single work.

Your mistake. God has two things going on until the end when He brings it all together in Christ.

Eph 1:9-10 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (1:10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Kinda hard to believe that when Rom 6:3 says the very words "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

That is also a water-less baptism. Many Christians have water on the brain with regards to the word baptism.

Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

SIX "bapti*" and NONE of them are water.

I suppose Philip used different words to the Ethiopian eunuch that he water baptized in the desert.
But as long as it was done in the name of Jesus Christ, his past sins were remitted.

Once again, that is related to Israel and NOT the body of Christ.

I agree, if the body you write of is the congregation of believers.
Also known as the body of Christ.

Yep.

But to be "immersed" directly into Christ requires water baptism.

Nope... that is a myth of Churchianity.

Water baptism is also the only way to crucify the flesh and start walking in the Spirit.

Nope. Pure myth.

As it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

How does your doctrine cover that crucifixion?

Of course. No water needed.

Do you understand figures of speech?

 

[Derf]

The gift, in my understanding of Eph 2:8-9, is faith, and it is given purely through the grace of God and therefore does not originate from within us. And it is through this faith that we are saved.

That's one of the clearest explanations I've heard, but it says we are saved by something other than the cross--you have us saved by this "gift", and therefore the cross is unnecessary.

 

[Hoping]

Thanks for clarifying for me.
The gift, in my understanding of Eph 2:8-9, is faith, and it is given purely through the grace of God and therefore does not originate from within us. And it is through this faith that we are saved. And the faith that is necessary is to believe in the person and work of Christ, (Son of God, Son of man, without sin, dying a substitutionary death on the cross atoning for the sins of those who believe, being raised from the dead, ascending back to the Father, to put it into its elemental nutshell.)

The gift, in my understanding is the grace.
How can faith be a gift if we need it to be saved?
What is the point of believing if the belief is forced on us?

Grace means it is completely unmerited by any or our works, and is also from only the goodness and mercy of God, and not something He owes us.

I agree.
But faith is a conclusion we draw from our experiences with or about God.

It is this salvation, this union with Christ and His righteousness, that produces the fruit of good works. (Vine-branches) If there is no fruit (change that begins to exhibit in our life and attitudes as obedience to God, and in increasing measure and endurance unto the end) there is no union. The faith professed is not genuine.

I agree.

No one can be saved without hearing the gospel and believing it. It is the gospel that we must have faith in in order to be saved. The devil has heard and believes it is true, but he hates it, and spends his time trying to deceive people. He wants the worship that belongs to only God.

I agree.
More than faith is necessary for salvation.
It is good to know your stance on that.

 

[Hoping]

Yes, it is the ONE baptism what Paul tells us is for the body of Christ.
No Hebrew water ceremony required.

Why did he frequently write of water baptism then?
Why did he include his own baptism in Acts 22:16?

Once again... different dispensation. Not for the body of Christ which is a new creature.
Not "washed with water"... washed by the blood of Christ.
Again, Paul says that there is ONE baptism... not two.
Your mistake. God has two things going on until the end when He brings it all together in Christ.
That is also a water-less baptism. Many Christians have water on the brain with regards to the word baptism.
SIX "bapti*" and NONE of them are water.
Once again, that is related to Israel and NOT the body of Christ.

The eunuch was an Ethiopian.
Lydia, Cornelius, and the jailer of Thyatira, were not Israelites either.

Yep.
Nope... that is a myth of Churchianity.
Nope. Pure myth.
Of course. No water needed.

Do you understand figures of speech?

I understand the written word.
What you call "figures of speech" are my reality in Christ.
As you have not undertaken to be water baptized, how do you identify with Rom 6:7?
"For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Are you free from sin?

 

[Hoping]

That's one of the clearest explanations I've heard, but it says we are saved by something other than the cross--you have us saved by this "gift", and therefore the cross is unnecessary.

So many things are necessary for salvation that the idea of faith alone is ludicrous.