beloved57
Well-known member
Huh, Off topic !
The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Derf
Well-known member
By "the religion of man" you mean Calvinism, right? Because you teach that people can ONLY be saved by a special process that happens OUTSIDE of and prior to the death of Jesus Christ.
It was just a comment of concurrence with your post.
Every man can humble himself, so the death of the Lord was for everyone.
The Bible states that God died for our sins but not for our sins only but also for the sins of the whole world. Because you do not understand all there is to know about redemption you make God a liar in verses like 1 John 2:2.
beloved57
Well-known member
Error, nowhere in scripture. Sounds like salvation conditioned on man !
Our salvation is totally dependent on our obedience to God.
Peter wrote..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
Paul wrote..."Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:8-10)
That is scripture...right?
Right Divider
Body part
Works in tandem with the grace of God.
Like, for instance, 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
By the grace of God we can find the escapes from every temptation designed by the devil to kill us.
"Finding" is a work...to some.
But so is believing the gospel in the first place.
So is repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Not to mention enduring faithfully till the end.
Can a man be saved without enduring faithfully till his/the end?
No.
The only works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law, but some have used the phrase "works" to deprive others of repentance from sin and every other manifestation of the grace they so elevate.
Specifically, circumcision and dietary laws.
Our salvation is dependent on grace alone!
Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2&version=KJV
You may have missed the part of my post where I mentioned that the only works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.
It is written..."Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;" (Rom 9:32)
And..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)
God's loving grace is eminently necessary, however, for without it we would never have been given the gifts of repentance from sin or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our past sins.
We would never have been given the scriptures so we can manifest both the death and life of our Redeemer.
If we are not manifesting from whose seed we are (re)born, we would be lost children of the devil.
That would have left us in the flesh, instead of being able to walk after the Spirit.
The anti-works fellas are only "working" against circumcision, dietary laws, feast keeping, and other such parts of the Mosaic Law.
I agree whole heartedly with that.
You still say that salvation can be by works, yes or no?
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats works salvation. See a persons obedience to Christ is the result of Christ having died for them. You condition salvation on man, the bible conditions salvation on the cross of Christ. Paul says Gal 6:14
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
See being crucified to the world and the world to us, is merely another way of saying being saved ! The Cross gets the all the credit !
James 2:24 does not "work in tandem" with Romans 4:5
Right Divider
Body part
Paul says "to him that worketh NOT but believeth",
Non-sequitur
You're confused about some scripture.
The only baptism in the body of Christ is dry.
Again your confusion is immense... Enduring to the end is about the great tribulation and it is all about the remnant of Israel. You cannot find "enduring to the end" anywhere is Paul's epistles.
Nope... that's NOT what Paul says. You are a scripture twister. You remind me of a previous member... are you a sock puppet?
The works of the Law...No.
When one goes down the "credit" slide, all "credit" goes to God.
But can I be saved if I don't want to be saved?
Have we no say in our redemption or salvation?
You are correct.
The works of Rom 4 were the works of the Law.
The works of James 2 are the product of our conversion.
What do you consider a "work" for salvation?
This is what Paul considered a "work" for salvation...circumcision, dietary law, feast keeping, tithing, and any other precept of the Mosaic Law.
Unfortunately, some have included repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and even enduring faithfully till the end as "works" for salvation.
Do you include obedience to God as a "work' to be shunned?
I don't.