Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
When I spoke of the law of Moses I referred specifically to James 2:10 and that is not in regard to 613 commandments.
ECT The Real Most Miisunderstood Passage in the Bible John 3
- Thread starter Nick M
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When I spoke of the law of Moses I referred specifically to James 2:10 and that is not in regard to 613 commandments.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Guess you were wrong, too. hahaha
Of course James is referring to all 613. The Bible nowhere delegates the 613 laws into the "ceremonial " sacrificial" etc etc. I'll wait while you try and look for those divisions that do not appear anywhere in the Torah.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm the one who asked about "ceremonial laws". Jerry specified the Ten.
dodge
New member
Probably not very nice but it was true.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Have you considered that there is a difference in meaning between "born again" and being "in Christ"???
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
At Romans 3:20 Paul speaks of the Law and he says that it is the knowledge of sin. He is obviously referring to the moral law (see Ro.7:7).
Of course, that is my point with the thread. I can not do John 3:8, and all born of the Spirit can do it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you are not born again? If that is true then you will not be able to see the kingdom (Jn.3:3), much less enter it.
Is that what you believe?
I have not been resurrected. Have you? Can you appear from behind locked doors and vanish from people's sight? Do you come and go where people don't know where you came from and then where you went?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Being born again has nothing to do with being resurrected. Instead, people are born again when they believe the gospel:
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).
glorydaz
Well-known member
1 Peter 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
glorydaz
Well-known member
How do you figure that?
James 1:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
My observation is that MADists are not good students of the Old Testament, very poor. Outside from their dispensationalist separating of Israel from the church, they're weak. Thus Arnold 's book - Israelology the Missing Link in Systematic Theology.
I sound like a jerk and I am one but you really need to rethink your understanding of the law. Your far from understanding its purpose in a complete and fuller way as I do. That's why you don't see the fact (little sister) that the law of Moses was one complete unit comprising 613 laws that James said if you've blown even one that you're now guilty of having broken all 613 of them.
The question is why can't you see that?
Better get back to school littlin.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Because it's a load of bull.
Don't worry, I've been reading lots of bull lately.
Like we have to be saved before we can believe. Like man is too depraved to ever seek God.
:think: I wonder why so many people went up to the top of mountains, and called out for God to hear them? Maybe they just hoped to hear an echo. I wonder why people fall on their knees and beg to be heard? These are things we should ponder. Why can't you see that?
Sweat love, I didn't mean it like that. Come now, don't despair, we're on the same wavelength you and i.
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oatmeal
Well-known member
To be born again, I Peter 1:23, is the event that is is also referred by other terms, saved, "now are we sons of God" it refers to our standing in God's household as sons of God.
However, our state may fluctuate as in any household, job, memmbership in a club, etc. As we adhere to the policies, rules, laws of a household, job... we are in a positive state, we are doing well and appreciated by those we serve, however, if we disobey, our state deteriorates.
I John speaks of having fellowship with other believers and God and Jesus Christ, when we live according to God's word, we flourish, we are "in Christ"
When we break that fellowship by disobedience, we are still sons of God, but we are no longer in Christ.
The parable in Luke of the second son who sinned and wasted his inheritance and found himself living with the pigs received the results of his disobedience, he brought it upon himself. When he realized his state, when he came to himself and realized what he had when he did obey his father, he decided to go back to his father and his father welcomed his son back. The sinful son was always a son, regardless of his disobedience, but flourished only when he did the father's will.
When we do what we are supposed to be doing, we are "in Christ" and when we are truly committed to being in Christ no matter what, we get to the state of being "in the Lord" as Ephesians speaks of.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That passage is speaking about something which will happen in the future, the same "hope" spoken of at Titus 2:3.
But being "born again" happens the moment a person believes the gospel:
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).
Here the Greek word translated "being born again" is in the "present" tense, proving that being born again has nothing to do with being resurrected from the dead.