ECT The Real Most Miisunderstood Passage in the Bible John 3

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
My observation is that MADists are not good students of the Old Testament, very poor. Outside from their dispensationalist separating of Israel from the church, they're weak. Thus Arnold 's book - Israelology the Missing Link in Systematic Theology.

Tell us where Arnold's teaching on this subject disagrees with that of MAD.

Arnold seems to agree with what MAD teaches concerning Paul:

"The key person in the sixth dispensation was the Apostle Paul. It was Paul who uniquely received the revelation concerning the Dispensation of Grace. It was no accident that he received more revelation than any other apostle. Most of the letters or Epistles of the New Testament were written by the Apostle Paul. As he makes clear in Ephesians 3, it was he that received that special revelation concerning the dispensation of that grace of God (v. 2). He, more than any other apostle, is the key person for this dispensation."

http://messianicassociation.org/ezine16-af.dispensations.htm
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
However, our state may fluctuate as in any household, job, memmbership in a club, etc. As we adhere to the policies, rules, laws of a household, job... we are in a positive state, we are doing well and appreciated by those we serve, however, if we disobey, our state deteriorates.....When we break that fellowship by disobedience, we are still sons of God, but we are no longer in Christ.

:chuckle:
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Being born again has nothing to do with being resurrected. Instead, people are born again when they believe the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

You didn't even attempt a rebuttal, so I am not going to give another reply.
 

Danoh

New member
I have not been resurrected. Have you? Can you appear from behind locked doors and vanish from people's sight? Do you come and go where people don't know where you came from and then where you went?

Problem is, your sense of what he is saying in John 3:8 is not consistent with the flow of their conversation, there, in John 3.

He says that to him in John 3:8, in line with the obvious fact there, that the guy is finding himself unable to receive what Jesus is saying to him - becuase he is unable to "see" what Jesus is talking about.

What you are "seeing" in that passage is what YOU think you are seeing.

But your conclusion does not follow the flow of their conversation.

The guy is unable to receive what Jesus is saying to him because it does not make sense to him from where he looks at things.

So the Lord uses an example from everyday life that people accept without question - the wind.

Which, as with the concept He is speaking of to Nicodemas, is an invisible (a spiritual) reality, and yet people accept it, based on nothing more than the sound their natural man is able to pick up on.

He is speaking of the invisible things of God through what is understood as real through one's everyday natural senses, towards the intent that Nicodemas might be able to clearly "see" through an everyday experience, what He is talking about to him (the invisible, spiritual reality, he is describing).

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

And John 3 is not the first time the Lord uses an everyday natural man example of perception, as a means of pointing out to Israel a spiritual/invisible reality they have failed to exercise their eye of faith towards.

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. 16:2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Luke 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. 12:55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Likewise in...

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

He is basically saying to him "just as you accept that which you cannot see without question, well; what I am talking about is like that also; just receive My Word this that I am describing to you is so."

But again, Nicodemas fails to "see" the spiritual reality He is talking about.

3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

Case in point - that Nicodemas should have been familiar with - King David's eye of faith, way back when the reality all about him matched anything but the LORD'S Word to him.

Way back when he'd found himself up against King Saul; who was out to do him in, rather than secede his throne to David.

Psalms 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty. 27:13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

In the gospels, the Lord is ever addressing His fellow Israelites on this issue.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

In fact, this very issue on the part of Israel, was what John was written towards adressing...

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The Book ending on the same issue it began with...

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
 

Danoh

New member
John 1:51 (KJV)


The born again "see"

Nope. That is yet future...

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

See Jacob's ladder, Gen. 28.
 

Danoh

New member
...what [MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION] is saying is not only biblical, but in perfect rhythm with every step and WORD of the Living WORD.

...

Without a "Dispensational" approach to scripture, how can anyone understand how the Bride is Joined to the Groom in the final Day of the LORD?

You're mixing apples (Matt. thru Early Acts and Hebrews thru Revelation) with oranges (Romans thru Philemon).

No Dispensational approach is needed within the framework of, and at the time of the events of Matthew thru John.
 
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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
You're mixing apples (Matt. thru Early Acts and Hebrews thru Revelation) with oranges (Romans thru Philemon).

No Dispensational approach is needed within the framework of, and at the time of the events of Matthew thru John.

I deleted this post, because I misunderstood the topic. If you could delete my quoted post... I would appreciate it. I'm not flying the Zionist flag just yet and totally missed the thrust of Nick the first time I read his words.

That was my misunderstanding.

I'm on point now.
 

Danoh

New member
Everyone that is born of the Spirit, is like the wind.

You cannot tell from where they have come, or where they have gone.

Examine the LORD's coming and going after his resurrection.

I am well aware you are basing your error on that.

But that is not what He is talking about in John 3 - it is not the flow of what He is dealing with in Nicodemas.
 

Danoh

New member
I deleted this post, because I misunderstood the topic. If you could delete my quoted post... I would appreciate it. I'm not flying the Zionist flag just yet and totally missed the thrust of Nick the first time I read his words.

That was my misunderstanding.

I'm on point now.

I am no longer able to delete posts.

I mentioned it to Tam, as she is a moderator, but she basically shirked it off in her response to me.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
I am no longer able to delete posts.

I mentioned it to Tam, as she is a moderator, but she basically shirked it off in her response to me.

Understood... Sorry for the side bar I've created [MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION]. I totally understand. If you could simply edit the quote, is what I meant. No worries though.

All grace, In Him...

- EE
 
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