Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course you do not believe the Lord Jesus when He said that the field is the world (kosmos) (Mt.13:38).
You even said that word means "the whole world:
Do you think that Judaea is the whole world? LOL
The Preterists and Matthew 24:34
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Of course you do not believe the Lord Jesus when He said that the field is the world (kosmos) (Mt.13:38).
You even said that word means "the whole world:
Do you think that Judaea is the whole world? LOL
He did know all these things would happen before that generation all passed away.
That's the whole point of chapter 24 in Matthew, chapter 21 in Luke, and chapter 13 in Mark.
Why do you think the gospel had to go to the Jew first?
Answer: Because Jerusalem was about to be destroyed.
That's why Jesus said the following:
(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
It was very important that those who believed in Christ Jesus were nowhere near Jerusalem when the destruction began in 66AD. Jesus told those there to run to the hills, and those who didn't live there not to go there.
God waited 40 years before He destroyed Jerusalem so that as many Jews as possible could be saved:
(2 Peter 3:9) The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
What was the promise?
The promise was that the temple would be destroyed before that generation completely passed away.
You're a fool to claim Christ Jesus didn't know any of this.
Jerry, I already explained to you that while the destruction of Jerusalem took place from 66AD - 70AD, the fallen angels and satan were also cast out of heaven.
"Kosmos" can be translated as "universe" also.
It only happened in Judaea, which is why Jesus only told those in Judaea to run to the hills.
(Matt 24:16) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
If it's a future worldwide event (your claim), then why are only those in Judaea (which doesn't even exist anymore) supposed to run to the hills?
musterion
Well-known member
Note well, gentlemen, the glimpse this thread has provided into the darkened mind of Tetelestai.
Josephus: Not only not in the Bible, but of equal authority to the Bible.
Greek particle an and the subjunctive mood: In the Bible, but meaningless.
Now observe, his reply will contain some or all of the following words: Darby, Bullinger, Scofield, Stam, Crowley, dispensationalism, 1800s.
Josephus: Not only not in the Bible, but of equal authority to the Bible.
Greek particle an and the subjunctive mood: In the Bible, but meaningless.
Now observe, his reply will contain some or all of the following words: Darby, Bullinger, Scofield, Stam, Crowley, dispensationalism, 1800s.
musterion
Well-known member
So there are toddlers in heaven who can safely stick their hands into heavenly serpent dens? If that's been fulfilled already, it ain't happening ANYWHERE on this planet.
Or are you really a Mormon and all of this is happening on another planet?
You're so far gone you have no idea how embarrassing to yourself you are.
Hah, that boss guy reminds me of Stam in his old offices - sick em, Stam, lol
No, what this thread has shown is how desperate Dispensationalists/Futurists become in order to make Matt 24:34 say something it does not.
Nope
I never said the writings of Josephus were equal with the Bible, I said the writings of Josephus confirmed the prophecies of Jesus.
Nope
I said there is not some secret condition in the verse like you suggest.
I don't need to.
The fact that you make up stuff about what I said is proof that you can't defend your false theory.
Matt 24:34 speaks for itself.
You hate that verse because it's a deathblow to your Dispensationalism/Futurism.
It's a metaphor.
Are the lion, wolf, and leopard literal in the following verse?
(Jer 5:6 KJV) Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.
Israel is portrayed as a lamb, or as sheep in the OT.
Wolves and lambs lying down together is a description of the New Covenant.
Former enemies, now have peace together.
(Eph 2:15) 5 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
There is no longer a difference between Jew and Gentile.
You've been so brainwashed by Darby, you can't comprehend anything else.
You actually think that one day lions and lambs are literally going to play together and lie down with each other.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, I saw it. And his point about me was false and despite that you praised his post.
Interesting how you lumped Darby and Aliester Crowley together.
Dispensationalism was invented around the same time Mormonism was invented. Most people refer to those days as "the days of the cults"
Mormons are followers of Joseph Smith, Dispensationalists are followers of John Nelson Darby.
Stam was an early Darby follower.
Just go to Jerry Shugart's website and see for yourself HERE
Cornelius Stam is not alone about his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 1:2. Matthew Henry wrote:....John Nelson Darby understood the verse in the same way, writing the following:....A.R. Fausset comments on the verse matches the commentary of both Stam and Darby:
At least Jerry knows where his Dispensationalism came from.
Most Dispies on TOL are in denial.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I will go through this again for you and perhaps this time you can actually grasp what the Lord Jesus said. His words found in the 24th chapter of Matthew were in answer to this question:
"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt. 24:3).
Earlier the Lord Jesus had told us one of the things which will happen at the end of the age:
"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:37-43).
The fact of the matter, a fact which you will refuse to believe, is that no world wide harvest has yet to happen. Therefore, the end of the age of which the lord Jesus spoke remains in the future.
It will not be until the end of the age when the Lord Jesus will return and the end of the age remains in the future. therefore, His return also remains in the future.
The Lord Jesus' words at Matthew 13 contradicts and refutes the teachings of the preterists.
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He plagiarized that, as usual, from his alleged infallible teacher J. Stuart Russell, who taught him his satanic "AD 70-ism"-straight from this book(and others):
And the deceiving spineless one Craigie, pretends like teachers, such as Darby, never taught him anything, as he learned his satanic "AD 70-ism" just from glancing at the bible.
You're a punk, noTettosterone-even you know it.
Spam. Punk.
I am sorry to hear about your loss, tetelestai. A death in the family is always tough. My condolences.
Anybody Got Change?
Anybody Got Change?
No, Tel, that promise is this here - Acts 3:
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Peter has Him coming back to blot out Israel's sins after He returns to destroy every soul from among the people - Israel - that will not hear Him.
Look at what Peter wrote of this delay to those assemblies who had believed Peter's basic, Acts 2 and 3 message - look what he wrote at some point after that promised coming was interrupted per Paul.
2 Peter 3:
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
This is a Prophesied coming - interrupted by the Mystery revealed to and through an odd, unexpected, one Apostle too many to Israel's already existing Twelve - the Apostle of Israel's very enemies - the Gentiles: the Apostle Paul.
Romans 9:
22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 11:
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in.
Here, in Romans 11 also, is that promised coming that Peter is asserting was delayed by God in this longsuffering that Paul related in Romans 9 - here is Peter's/Israel's promised coming, in Romans 11:
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Thus, it is that we read in 2 Peter 3:
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul
also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other
scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Peter ends that with describing you, in your errors in this Tel - "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Back in Romans 9, we also read:
27. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28. For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
In His Mystery longsuffering He has delayed "the promise of His coming" He had prophesied thru Israel's prophets.
What Mystery longsuffering is this that has God having delayed the promise of His Coming - what is this longsuffering according to?
1 Timothy 1:
11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
12. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13. Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Its that all longsuffering that God first made known in Acts 9 - after Israel's fall - at Acts 7:51, per Matthew 12.
Its that salvation first revealed through this odd new Apostle - for, under the old - he was un-save-able - for he had blasphemed the Holy Spirit:
30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Here is Israel's fall per that blasphemy - Acts 7:
51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53. Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Paul is an oddity due to this all longsuffering salvation that began with him - he had been the chief sinner of those of Israel resisting the Holy Spirit - Acts 26:
11. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.
12. Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13. At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the
pricks.
15. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17. Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20. But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Notice - "and from the Gentiles" - "the whole world" was now "under sin" - Israel having joined the world's rebellion against the LORD and His Christ, Acts 4, and with it, God's wrath was set to fall, Acts 4, but for God's Mystery longsuffering.
In this, Paul's salvation is odd in this "all longsuffering" of the Lord's toward him "first."
The Lord just showed up and saved him! No confession, no "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" just - "Boom; here I am you so hell bound in your zeal - against Me - its over, you now serve me - any objections - didn't think so - now here is what I saved you for; I want you too..."
Why? Who was this Lord? As Ananias put it - "the God of our fathers" - "that Rock which followed them" which "was Christ."
Now, you - Tel - you show up two thousand years later with your Josephus and all the rest of your nonsense to blaspheme that all over again.
Be thankful we are all on this side of God's all longsuffering that began with Paul in Acts 9 for pattern to them which should hereafter believe - be thankful your Preterist heresy is covered under the terms of this longsuffering salvation.
Try doing some works meet for repentance for a change - try living out this all longsuffering salvation that God revealed to Peter through Paul has the promise of His return on hold "til the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."
Supposedly, you repented - supposedly, you changed your mind about your merits and trusted the merits of the Cross ALONE.
His longsuffering all these centuries afforded you this opportunity.
How's about keeping the change - for His sake?
You changed your mind - keep the change!
Anybody Got Change?
No, Tel, that promise is this here - Acts 3:
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Peter has Him coming back to blot out Israel's sins after He returns to destroy every soul from among the people - Israel - that will not hear Him.
Look at what Peter wrote of this delay to those assemblies who had believed Peter's basic, Acts 2 and 3 message - look what he wrote at some point after that promised coming was interrupted per Paul.
2 Peter 3:
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
This is a Prophesied coming - interrupted by the Mystery revealed to and through an odd, unexpected, one Apostle too many to Israel's already existing Twelve - the Apostle of Israel's very enemies - the Gentiles: the Apostle Paul.
Romans 9:
22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 11:
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in.
Here, in Romans 11 also, is that promised coming that Peter is asserting was delayed by God in this longsuffering that Paul related in Romans 9 - here is Peter's/Israel's promised coming, in Romans 11:
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Thus, it is that we read in 2 Peter 3:
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul
also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other
scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Peter ends that with describing you, in your errors in this Tel - "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Back in Romans 9, we also read:
27. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28. For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
In His Mystery longsuffering He has delayed "the promise of His coming" He had prophesied thru Israel's prophets.
What Mystery longsuffering is this that has God having delayed the promise of His Coming - what is this longsuffering according to?
1 Timothy 1:
11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
12. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13. Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Its that all longsuffering that God first made known in Acts 9 - after Israel's fall - at Acts 7:51, per Matthew 12.
Its that salvation first revealed through this odd new Apostle - for, under the old - he was un-save-able - for he had blasphemed the Holy Spirit:
30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Here is Israel's fall per that blasphemy - Acts 7:
51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53. Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Paul is an oddity due to this all longsuffering salvation that began with him - he had been the chief sinner of those of Israel resisting the Holy Spirit - Acts 26:
11. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.
12. Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13. At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the
pricks.
15. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17. Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20. But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Notice - "and from the Gentiles" - "the whole world" was now "under sin" - Israel having joined the world's rebellion against the LORD and His Christ, Acts 4, and with it, God's wrath was set to fall, Acts 4, but for God's Mystery longsuffering.
In this, Paul's salvation is odd in this "all longsuffering" of the Lord's toward him "first."
The Lord just showed up and saved him! No confession, no "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" just - "Boom; here I am you so hell bound in your zeal - against Me - its over, you now serve me - any objections - didn't think so - now here is what I saved you for; I want you too..."
Why? Who was this Lord? As Ananias put it - "the God of our fathers" - "that Rock which followed them" which "was Christ."
Now, you - Tel - you show up two thousand years later with your Josephus and all the rest of your nonsense to blaspheme that all over again.
Be thankful we are all on this side of God's all longsuffering that began with Paul in Acts 9 for pattern to them which should hereafter believe - be thankful your Preterist heresy is covered under the terms of this longsuffering salvation.
Try doing some works meet for repentance for a change - try living out this all longsuffering salvation that God revealed to Peter through Paul has the promise of His return on hold "til the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."
Supposedly, you repented - supposedly, you changed your mind about your merits and trusted the merits of the Cross ALONE.
His longsuffering all these centuries afforded you this opportunity.
How's about keeping the change - for His sake?
You changed your mind - keep the change!
Everyone here surely knows how the Romans employed such devices of cruelty but also it simply means "a post" as in a fence post. So what do you do when you want to build a city and keep out the liars, thieves, and murderers? You build a fence or a wall. However the kingdom of God does not come with ocular-visual observation, (for the kingdom of God is within you) so the fence or wall is built in idioms, allegories, parables, similitudes, and sayings which the carnal man can neither perceive nor comprehend, (and the foolishness of God is wiser then the wisdom of man and men). Thus "take up your stake" can also be like saying take up your parable, take up your burden, (of the Word) take up your doctrine and live by it; for we are building a fence, (out of stauros fence posts). If you refuse to bring your own stake then you likewise refuse to put on the festive garment: and there is a parable about that also. :crackup: