The Hebrew Epistles: Where Do They Fit?

[Jerry Shugart]

Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond.

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps you, STP, will address what I said about these two verses from 1 Corinthians?

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

Are not Peter's words here speaking of the gospel according to the revelation of the mystery?:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

And what about what is written here:

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).​

And here?:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit" (1 Pet.3:18).​

Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance.

Is this not the gospel of our salvation?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps you, STP, will address what I said about these two verses from 1 Corinthians?

I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

If you are right then we must believe that not only were those in the church at Corinth were "kingdom saints" but also all those in every place which call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

However, this is what these so-called members of the kingdom church were told:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Do you think that this verse is speaking of those who are baptized into the Body of Christ?

 

[nonanomanon]

Genesis-Malachi: earthly inheritance
Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance
Acts: transition to the dispensation of the grace of God
Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond

Our Bibles are already rightly divided, if we will just accept it.

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.

Genesis to Deuteronomy (5) = Creation Books (God Handed them to Moses, they were not written by the Hebrews, therefore they are an account of Creation)
Joshua to Zechariah (33) = Old Testament Books revealing the Coming of the Messiah
Malachi to Philemon (19) = New Testament Books revealing the Messiah as the fulfillment of the Old Testament
Hebrews to Revelation (9) = Revelation Books revealing "New Jerusalem/Star Wormwood", as the fulfillment of the New Testament

1. Luke 3:23 says "Jesus and Joseph about 30 Years", Isiah 34:8 says that the days of Jesus and the Antichrist are equal ............. Rev. 7:8 says Joseph is 12,000 (days). 12,000 is about 32.8 or 33 years. This is the duration of the Old Testament. 33 Books to the Old Testament.
2. Luke 17:17-18 says the Revelation is 9 Books, and the New Testament is 19 Books (total of 9+10), they are the Revealing of the Glory of the Lord, which is the Messiah.

The 112 Pope Prophecy of Saint Malachy, begins in the Book of Malachi and it ends in the book of Hebrews, which is when, Christ is revealed as the Lamb Slain to the Nations, which is Melchisedec. A portion of Aaron will be sacrificed when the 12 Hour Period (difference between Matt 12:40 and Rev. 11:9), the Italian Genetic Line (as Italy is described as Aaron in Acts), and the Catholic Clergy (as the Catholic Clergy is described in Acts 13 as Aaron) ............... then the portion of Aaron next to the Heart of Judah qualifies for the "Marriage by Fire", during this 12 Hour period. We should have less then 30 full days now, until this is satisfied.

The Antichrist only, would know or remember, God handing a series of books to the Hebrews, since both Moses and the Hebrews were unlearned, but they had to begin to carry the Gospel among many.

 

[heir]

Genesis-Malachi: earthly inheritance
Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance
Acts: transition to the dispensation of the grace of God
Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond

Our Bibles are already rightly divided, if we will just accept it.

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.

Amen!

 

[heir]

I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

Yup!

 

[heir]

And the letter to the Hebrews is exactly where it belongs. In the Holy Bible, useful for instruction and correction, but after Paul's gospel.

Yup! It's right where God wants it/right where it belongs!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yup!

So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

If you are right then we must believe that not only were those in the church at Corinth were "kingdom saints" but also all those in every place which call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

However, this is what these so-called members of the kingdom church were told:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Do you think that this verse is speaking of those who are baptized into the Body of Christ?

 

[heir]

So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?

This is who I believe the "church of God" is and who it isn't! We'll start off by posing this question:

Question: Who did Saul of Tarsus persecute beyond measure?



1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Answer:

This one!

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The one that was "added" to in early Acts!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Here are some more that were added to that already existing church:

Acts 4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Also, take note from the above, "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. "should be saved"?

These people are waiting for the times of refreshing that shall come from the presence of the Lord when their sins may be blotted out (Acts 3:19-21 KJV). That is God's covenant with them when He shall take away their sins (Romans 11:25-27 KJV). This is not so with the church the Body of Christ! Through our Lord Jesus Christ we have NOW received the atonement! (Romans 5:11 KJV)

And do you recall that in Matthew when the young man asked, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

What was Jesus Christ's answer unto him?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And the young man's answer and another question:

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and..."

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

He was told to sell all that he had! This is exactly what we see the church at Jerusalem doing!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They had all things common. They sold all that they had. When the Lord did not restore the kingdome to Israel as expected, these people must have been in great need! And just what do we find Paul instructing some to do after he departs? "Take heed unto yourselves AND TO ALL THE FLOCK...(notice the "yourselves AND TO ALL THE FLOCK"). The Body of Christ is not a "flock" (nor sheep, for that matter). The verses tell us who that flock is "over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD,..."

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Notice again, Paul says that when he departs grievous wolves shall enter in among them NOT SPARING THE FLOCK. And then in verse 30, he again shows a distinction! ALSO OF YOUR OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

"The church of God" IS NOT the Body of Christ! There are two groups in the one Body, but it is NOT the church of God and the Body of Christ that are the twain made one new man!


Go 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, Jerry

 

[aikido7]

...Just a bit of context to get outraged about....

Historians believe the profoundly beautiful Book of Hebrew was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem.

This means its authorship is found to be long after Jesus' death. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution.

The theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the person of Christ and his role as a mediator between humankind and God.

As I remember from my own studies, the epistle shows a very different theology than the theology of the gospel accounts, for it labels Jesus with terms like "pioneer" or "forerunner," "priest" and "high priest.".

Jesus as the exalted Son of God and the high priest shows an early and unique dual Christian theology.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

This is who I believe the "church of God" is and who it isn't!

You have already agreed with STP that 1 Corinthians was written to a kingdom church. That is why I said this to you:

So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

If you are right then we must believe that not only were those in the church at Corinth "kingdom saints" but also all those in every place which call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

However, this is what these so-called members of the kingdom church were told:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Do you think that this verse is speaking of those who are baptized into the Body of Christ?​

If your answer is "yes" then you must believe that members of the Body of Christ are members of the kingdom church. And if your answer is "no" then you must believe that there are two Bodies of Christ.

So what is your answer?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

...Just a bit of context to get outraged about....

Historians believe the profoundly beautiful Book of Hebrew was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem.

Yes, and those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ:

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).​

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).​

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).​

From this we can know that it is impossible that the book of Hebrews, which tells all "to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," is for the future tribulation when only the high priest will have access to God. Instead, these words are speaking of the access into the heavenlies which members of the Body of Christ enjoy now. Cornelius Stam, the founder of The Berean Bible Society, wrote:

"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).​

 

[Danoh]

...Just a bit of context to get outraged about....

Historians believe the profoundly beautiful Book of Hebrew was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem.

This means its authorship is found to be long after Jesus' death. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution.

The theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the person of Christ and his role as a mediator between humankind and God.

As I remember from my own studies, the epistle shows a very different theology than the theology of the gospel accounts, for it labels Jesus with terms like "pioneer" or "forerunner," "priest" and "high priest.".

Jesus as the exalted Son of God and the high priest shows an early and unique dual Christian theology.

Compare John, chapters 1 and 8 to Hebrews 4 thru 7.

A sample of what you will find...

John 8:
56. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Hebrews 7:
1. For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2. To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3. Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Thus, the Lord's words in Luke 19:

41. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42. Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

This King and their Grace was their prophesied Grace - John 1:17's "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

In other words, He confirmed this Prophesied Grace - Romans 15:

8. Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

As a result, the Hebrew writer was able to relate to the Hebrews concerning this King of Salem's Prophesied Grace:

Hebrews 2:
17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins
of the people.
18. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:
14. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[heir]

You have already agreed with STP that 1 Corinthians was written to a kingdom church.

Yes, I agree with SaulToPaul on who the church of God is. We agree on much! I gave you a thorough answer on who I believe the church of God is and who it isn't. I've no need to answer you further.

Go study, Jerry.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, I agree with SaulToPaul on who the church of God is. We agree on much! I gave you a thorough answer on who I believe the church of God is and who it isn't. I've no need to answer you further.

Go study, Jerry.

Lol, more like go study out how to study a thing out... soundly.

 

[john w]

How would you possibly expect anyone to be taught by those in the Neo-MAD camp about the meanings I put on the two verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians since all you people do is to run and hide from those verses?

Since you obviously have great confidence that I am in error about the meaning of those two verses then you must have a reason for believing that.

Now is a great opportunity to teach me what you think is the truth. Why would you pass up such a great opportunity to share your wisdom?

Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."

I thought so. You can't produce it. And the drone is going to "argue," from the bible?


"to run and hide from those verses?"-Jerry's spam, which is on every third post

That's your best cliche?




Sit, unteacheable one.

 

[Danoh]

Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."

I thought so. You can't produce it. And the drone is going to "argue," from the bible?


"to run and hide from those verses?"-Jerry's spam, which is on every third post

That's your best cliche?




Sit, unteacheable one.

Leave it to someone who's supposed Mid-Acts is more Acts 2 than much Mid, to refer to those who are much more consistent in their Mid-Acts as, Neo-Mid-Acts.

Just goes to show what all that Greeking this, that, the other, add in a pinch of this or that supposed better translation, and a whole lotta books supposedly "about" ...results in...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, I agree with SaulToPaul on who the church of God is. We agree on much! I gave you a thorough answer on who I believe the church of God is and who it isn't. I've no need to answer you further.

Of course you will not answer. You want us to believe that 1 Corinthians was written to the so-called kingdom church where there are no members of the Body of Christ.

But you refuse to address this verse where Paul makes it plain that those to whom the epistle were addressed are said the have been baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"(1 Cor.12:13).​

You are so confused that you are unable to answer the most simple questions. But I never expected that you would!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."

You miss the point. I never expect anyone from the Neo-MAD crowd to answer anything.

But it is a lot fun to ask them questions and see what excuses they come up with in order to avoid answering simple questions!

 

[john w]

Of course you will not answer.

Weighty. Standard fare spam. Jerry's "Trifecta:"

1.Of course, you've not answered 67 of my last 87 questions. You cannot answer.

2. You "personally" attack me.

3. You run and hide.


Fun! You taught us all that, Jerry. Please...teach us more, unteacheable one.