The Gospel That Makes All Religions Worthless

[beloved57]

I have explained it to you many times that ALL have to admit they are sinners and they have to repent of those sins.

Those my Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies hating God Rom 5:10 !

 

[beloved57]

Until you admit that your righteousness falls short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. You are under the law and will be judged by the law.

You are in the same boat preaching salvation by doing a requirement, thats the law of works ! Rom 3:27

[FONT=&quot]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what [/FONT]law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[musterion]

Repentance does not save or justify. Repentance is not a one time thing in the Christians life, it is ongoing.

Only if you define repent as "feel sorry for sin and stop sinning," which is not what the word means. It means "change of mind," and that is done only once, upon believing the Gospel of grace and being saved.

If one is saved, he will gradually grow in Christ, despite failures, because he is under grace, all sins have been forgiven AND he's been justified. From that point of view, what is there to repeatedly sorrow over? Nothing. It's all gone. You're instructing people to keep on telling God "sorry" for something that, in His eyes, no longer exists. It died with the old man who is counted as having been put off already (Eph 4:22) with the new man put on in his place. What comes next -- growth -- is God's work and He has guaranteed to perfect it in time.In

Instead of "repenting" over and over, what we're commanded to do is "be renewed in the spirit of your mind."

To put constant repentance on the back of people is to make them co-participants in their own sanctification, subjecting them to guilt and legalism. I know you don't intend that, Robert, but that's the effect it has.

Actually, to preach ongoing repentance is at the core of Lordship Salvation, which I know you hate.

 

[Robert Pate]

Only if you define repent as "feel sorry for sin and stop sinning," which is not what the word means. It means "change of mind," and that is done only once, upon believing the Gospel of grace and being saved.

If one is saved, he will gradually grow in Christ, despite failures, because he is under grace, all sins have been forgiven AND he's been justified. From that point of view, what is there to repeatedly sorrow over? Nothing. It's all gone. You're instructing people to keep on telling God "sorry" for something that, in His eyes, no longer exists. It died with the old man who is counted as having been put off already (Eph 4:22) with the new man put on in his place. What comes next -- growth -- is God's work and He has guaranteed to perfect it in time.In

Instead of "repenting" over and over, what we're commanded to do is "be renewed in the spirit of your mind."

To put constant repentance on the back of people is to make them co-participants in their own sanctification, subjecting them to guilt and legalism. I know you don't intend that, Robert, but that's the effect it has.

Actually, to preach ongoing repentance is at the core of Lordship Salvation, which I know you hate.

Like I said, repentance does not save or justify. I also believe that we are perfect and complete in God's eyes because of Jesus. However we have not arrived yet. We are still in these Adamic bodies that are prone to sin. I don't know about you, but sometimes I screw up. When I do I feel bad about it and repent.

 

[musterion]

Like I said, repentance does not save or justify. I also believe that we are perfect and complete in God's eyes because of Jesus. However we have not arrived yet. We are still in these Adamic bodies that are prone to sin. I don't know about you, but sometimes I screw up. When I do I feel bad about it and repent.

That's your call, but I'm reminded that Paul nowhere instructed anything along the lines of 1 Jn 1:9 for believers during this dispensation. I used to be one who held repentance (as you define it) and confession over my own head as a standard I could NEVER meet (because of the flesh/old man, who God says isn't me anymore). You know why I did that? Lordship Salvation...a subtle form of performance-based lawkeeping.

But if it's the old man still inside my flesh who does the sinning -- and not I, who am a justified saint in Christ -- then what do I have to feel sorry for or apologize for?

At this point someone (probably GT) will quote me there and say "You're preaching license to sin!" Paul already addressed exactly that false accusation more than once. If they won't hear Paul, they won't listen to me.

 

[Robert Pate]

That's your call, but I'm reminded that Paul nowhere instructed anything along the lines of 1 Jn 1:9 for believers during this dispensation. I used to be one who held repentance (as you define it) and confession over my own head as a standard I could NEVER meet (because of the flesh/old man, who God says isn't me anymore). You know why I did that? Lordship Salvation...a subtle form of performance-based lawkeeping.

But if it's the old man still inside my flesh who does the sinning -- and not I, who am a justified saint in Christ -- then what do I have to feel sorry for or apologize for?

At this point someone (probably GT) will quote me there and say "You're preaching license to sin!" Paul already addressed exactly that false accusation more than once. If they won't hear Paul, they won't listen to me.

Your old man is still in you and will be in you until the day that you die. Paul struggled with sin, see Romans 7:13-25. And we will also struggle with sin because we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. GT doesn't struggle with sin because she is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit. All that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit are waring against their Adamic nature just like Paul.

 

[musterion]

Your old man is still in you and will be in you until the day that you die.

Yes.

Paul struggled with sin, see Romans 7:13-25.

Others disagree but that's how I read that passage too.

And we will also struggle with sin because we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

The lost are enslaved to it and may regret the consequences of it, and even be guilty over it, and use works to atone for it, but they cannot war against it; there's nothing in them TO war against it.

GT doesn't struggle with sin because she is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

You've noticed she never says exactly how she obeys Christ better than anyone else on TOL. Big on claims, nonexistent on specifics.

All that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit are waring against their Adamic nature just like Paul.

But that war need not be fought by us. Reckoning the old man as dead is wrong; crucified, yes, but he is not dead. Trying to convince yourself that he's dead and gone leads only to frustration.

We're to reckon OURSELVES as dead to him because God says to do so, thereby putting him off because we've already put on the New Man. So all we need to do is be renewed in our mind to that fact. THAT must be done frequently. We win by dying.


"...regarding the former way of life, you have ALREADY put off from yourselves the old man, who is being ever corrupted according to the desires of deceit...[so now]...[we] are to be renewed in the spirit of [our] mind...having ALREADY put on the new man from God, created in righteousness and holiness and truth."

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes.



Others disagree but that's how I read that passage too.



The lost are enslaved to it and may regret the consequences of it, and even be guilty over it, and use works to atone for it, but they cannot war against it; there's nothing in them TO war against it.



You've noticed she never says exactly how she obeys Christ better than anyone else on TOL. Big on claims, nonexistent on specifics.



But that war need not be fought by us. Reckoning the old man as dead is wrong; crucified, yes, but he is not dead. Trying to convince yourself that he's dead and gone leads only to frustration.

We're to reckon OURSELVES as dead to him because God says to do so, thereby putting him off because we've already put on the New Man. So all we need to do is be renewed in our mind to that fact. THAT must be done frequently. We win by dying.


"...regarding the former way of life, you have ALREADY put off from yourselves the old man, who is being ever corrupted according to the desires of deceit...[so now]...[we] are to be renewed in the spirit of [our] mind...having ALREADY put on the new man from God, created in righteousness and holiness and truth."

There are certain truths that we embrace that are not available to the unsaved. For one we have hope. We rest in the fact that Jesus has dealt with our old Adamic man by putting him to death. This is why Paul said "I have been crucified with Christ". We believe that is true. However, the old Adamic man is still alive and well, even though he has been crucified with Christ. Christianity is spiritual, what we believe and trust in is spiritual. We are in the spiritual and the physical at the same time. We are sinners and saints at the same time. This is why Paul said, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I serve the law of God: but with the flesh the law of sin" Romans 7:24, 25.

 

[God's Truth]

There are certain truths that we embrace that are not available to the unsaved. For one we have hope. We rest in the fact that Jesus has dealt with our old Adamic man by putting him to death.

Could you show me where it says that? Could you show me where it says Jesus put our old Adamic man to death? I can show you scripture where we are supposed to do that.

This is why Paul said "I have been crucified with Christ". We believe that is true. However, the old Adamic man is still alive and well, even though he has been crucified with Christ.

What? Still alive, even though put to death?

Christianity is spiritual, what we believe and trust in is spiritual. We are in the spiritual and the physical at the same time. We are sinners and saints at the same time.

Can you show me the scripture that says we are sinners in Christ?

This is why Paul said, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I serve the law of God: but with the flesh the law of sin" Romans 7:24, 25.

No way was Paul serving the law of sin after Jesus saved him.

 

[musterion]

The key word is reckon.

 

[glorydaz]

Could you show me where it says that? Could you show me where it says Jesus put our old Adamic man to death? I can show you scripture where we are supposed to do that.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

We do that. Try again.


Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

1 Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. "By His stripes you are healed

Romans 6:2
By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?

Romans 6:11
So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

 

[musterion]

Vomiting out passages and making you guess what her point is.

 

[Danoh]

Vomiting out passages and making you guess what her point is.

Her point was crystal clear, as is.

GD asserted...

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

To which GT responded with...

We do that. Try again.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

...and other passages she posted with that one that from her perspective support her assertion that we do the crucifying.

Her point was crystal clear.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

 

[God's Truth]

Her point was crystal clear, as is.

GD asserted...



To which GT responded with...



...and other passages she posted with that one that from her perspective support her assertion that we do the crucifying.

Her point was crystal clear.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

Nice job.

 

[glorydaz]

We do that. Try again.

No, we do not do that. We believe, and it is accomplished in us.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal. 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.​

Paul is speaking of those who already have the Spirit dwelling in them. Did you do that, too. :chuckle:

I know you like to take credit for being baptized into Jesus Christ (but the Spirit does that). And you like to claim you had something to do with being raised up from the dead, but to claim you had something to do with being crucified with Him is simply over the top.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.​

Paul tells us it was accomplished in us when we believed the Gospel. That is the obedience of faith....believing unto righteousness.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.​

All these little clues you worker bees ignore, like "we, THROUGH THE SPIRIT do mortify...." We don't do the mortifying, or the crucifying, or the becoming new creatures. We believe and God does the performing of all the work in us.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

So, you toss up some verses that do not say what you claim ....but the total opposite of what you claim. Then you throw in a couple more you can twist to snatch all the glory away from God and pin the medal on your own chest. What a disgrace you are, Gut.

 

[glorydaz]

Nice job.

He'll go to great lengths to make it look like you did something right....you didn't. He's on a mission to prove himself a great theologian. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Her point was crystal clear, as is.

GD asserted...



To which GT responded with...



...and other passages she posted with that one that from her perspective support her assertion that we do the crucifying.

Her point was crystal clear.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

See the wiggle room he leaves himself?:devil:

 

[God's Truth]

No, we do not do that. We believe, and it is accomplished in us.

Gal. 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.​

Paul is speaking of those who already have the Spirit dwelling in them. Did you do that, too. :chuckle:

Paul is telling the saved we have to do something, we have to walk in the Spirit.

I know you like to take credit for being baptized into Jesus Christ (but the Spirit does that).

The Spirit does that to those who obey.

And you like to claim you had something to do with being raised up from the dead,

Would you like to explain that?

but to claim you had something to do with being crucified with Him is simply over the top.

Jesus tells us to do it.

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.​

Paul tells us it was accomplished in us when we believed the Gospel. That is the obedience of faith....believing unto righteousness.

Baptism represents how a believer equates his life with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Our old person is to die to the sins of the world and be buried with Jesus through baptism into death. We are buried with the water, and raised out of the water, raised to live a new life through Jesus.
Picture how baptism looks…the believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.
Romans explain this perfectly.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.​

Says right there we obey.

All these little clues you worker bees ignore, like "we, THROUGH THE SPIRIT do mortify...." We don't do the mortifying, or the crucifying, or the becoming new creatures. We believe and God does the performing of all the work in us.

We have to obey. Doing nothing is dead.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

So, you toss up some verses that do not say what you claim ....but the total opposite of what you claim. Then you throw in a couple more you can twist to snatch all the glory away from God and pin the medal on your own chest. What a disgrace you are, Gut.

Paul says plainly that we have to obey.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

 

[God's Truth]

He'll go to great lengths to make it look like you did something right....you didn't. He's on a mission to prove himself a great theologian. :chuckle:

Musterion didn't think it was clear, and Danoh proved he thought it was clear.