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"The Gospel Plus Nothing and Nothing But the Gospel"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Jerk could be a distant cousin of Truster.
RealityJerk
New member
Spirituality, a relationship with God, is personal and doesn't amount to a book, or accepting a particular book, as God's inerrant word. That's actually a cop out. You have to accept reality, on its own terms. There's nothing outside of you, that is absolutely certain. That makes certain religious people, like yourselves, insecure and afraid. You want God to hand you all of the answers in an infallible book, rather than having to figure things out for yourself, with the mental and spiritual faculties God gave you.
You're either an atheist, a complete heathen or a bible thumping “bozo”. There's no middle ground with any of you, that's the problem. It's either every single word of the bible, is divinely inspired or, it's a worthless book, of no value to Christ's disciples. I take the middle ground, not one or the other. If you really have a relationship with God, with His Son, you won't feel threatened by the prospect of the bible, not being His inerrant word.
As I mentioned earlier, in previous posts. God is personal. A personal God. He endowed the human mind, heart, with the ability to sense His presence and guidance. He communes with us, at our point of absolute certainty. That point of absolute certainty, is our being, our consciousness. You know God and what He expects from you, to grow and actualize His will for you. The arbitrary standards that others attempt to impose upon you, in respect to the legitimacy of your relationship with your God, shouldn't concern you. People's opinions about you and your relationship with God, are just that, people's opinions. Nothing more. They have no authority over you.
Books can make a positive contribution, to a person's walk with God, but they shouldn't be considered, inerrant and above scrutiny. We are to test everything, scrutinize it. Every-thing, all things, outside of yourself, should be tested. You need to sharpen those faculties, through prayer and meditation. Discipline.
You're either an atheist, a complete heathen or a bible thumping “bozo”. There's no middle ground with any of you, that's the problem. It's either every single word of the bible, is divinely inspired or, it's a worthless book, of no value to Christ's disciples. I take the middle ground, not one or the other. If you really have a relationship with God, with His Son, you won't feel threatened by the prospect of the bible, not being His inerrant word.
As I mentioned earlier, in previous posts. God is personal. A personal God. He endowed the human mind, heart, with the ability to sense His presence and guidance. He communes with us, at our point of absolute certainty. That point of absolute certainty, is our being, our consciousness. You know God and what He expects from you, to grow and actualize His will for you. The arbitrary standards that others attempt to impose upon you, in respect to the legitimacy of your relationship with your God, shouldn't concern you. People's opinions about you and your relationship with God, are just that, people's opinions. Nothing more. They have no authority over you.
Books can make a positive contribution, to a person's walk with God, but they shouldn't be considered, inerrant and above scrutiny. We are to test everything, scrutinize it. Every-thing, all things, outside of yourself, should be tested. You need to sharpen those faculties, through prayer and meditation. Discipline.
RealityJerk
New member
Those who are His, know His voice and they follow Him.
RealityJerk
New member
Tambora writes:
Why are you typing GAWD and not GOD?
Is that how those spirits you have been listening to told you to address GOD?
Response:
GAWD, is your caricature of GOD. You worship GAWWWDDD, not God or His Son. You essentially reduce God, the Alohim of Israel, to a book. You're possessed by the spirit of bibliolatry (from the Greek βιβλίον biblion, "book" and the suffix -λατρία -latria, "worship"). You're a bible worshiper, that's your GAWWWWDDDDAAA. Not the true Living God.
Tambora
And BTW, "church" means assembly, congregation.
When scripture speaks of a church, it is not speaking of a three ring circus of clowns.
Response:
This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal mean a building. Tyndale, in his bible translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples.
So, where does the word "church", derive from? Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However, to accept this, one has to stretch their imagination in an attempt to see an assembly or congregation. Kuriakon means a building, not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, at best. Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin of the word “Church”. They all trace the word back to its Old English / Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe.
What's the origin of circe? Any encyclopedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess-daughter of Helios, the Sun-deity. Some more interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with "circum-". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".
However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in the Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin quite clearly.
It's better to use the term "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun-deity, don't you agree? A word that is related to circus, which is really what the so called “church” has become, a freaking circus of confusion and stupidity.
Tambora writes:
You need to fire those spirits you are listening to.
Response:
I would never fire God's spirit, actually I can't. Perhaps you should stop identifying Christ's kingdom assembly, using an evil spirit's name. You bible thumping Evangelicals often assert that Muslims worship a “moon God”, because they refer to God as “Allah”. Well, following your line of reasoning, you associate the body of Jesus Christ, with a demonic pagan goddess. Perhaps you should “fire those spirits”, that have fried your conscience.
Why are you typing GAWD and not GOD?
Is that how those spirits you have been listening to told you to address GOD?
Response:
GAWD, is your caricature of GOD. You worship GAWWWDDD, not God or His Son. You essentially reduce God, the Alohim of Israel, to a book. You're possessed by the spirit of bibliolatry (from the Greek βιβλίον biblion, "book" and the suffix -λατρία -latria, "worship"). You're a bible worshiper, that's your GAWWWWDDDDAAA. Not the true Living God.
Tambora
And BTW, "church" means assembly, congregation.
When scripture speaks of a church, it is not speaking of a three ring circus of clowns.
Response:
This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal mean a building. Tyndale, in his bible translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples.
So, where does the word "church", derive from? Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However, to accept this, one has to stretch their imagination in an attempt to see an assembly or congregation. Kuriakon means a building, not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, at best. Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin of the word “Church”. They all trace the word back to its Old English / Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe.
What's the origin of circe? Any encyclopedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess-daughter of Helios, the Sun-deity. Some more interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with "circum-". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".
However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in the Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin quite clearly.
It's better to use the term "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun-deity, don't you agree? A word that is related to circus, which is really what the so called “church” has become, a freaking circus of confusion and stupidity.
Tambora writes:
You need to fire those spirits you are listening to.
Response:
I would never fire God's spirit, actually I can't. Perhaps you should stop identifying Christ's kingdom assembly, using an evil spirit's name. You bible thumping Evangelicals often assert that Muslims worship a “moon God”, because they refer to God as “Allah”. Well, following your line of reasoning, you associate the body of Jesus Christ, with a demonic pagan goddess. Perhaps you should “fire those spirits”, that have fried your conscience.
RealityJerk
New member
Exactly? Logos, is a human expression, with a particular meaning. I identify Logos or Divine Word, the immanent, manifest deity, in the person of Jesus Christ. He is the embodiment of God's perfect will for humanity, what he originally envisioned for all of us.
"Lamb" is also an idiom. [/QUOTE said:
musterion
Well-known member
What's the alternative.
RealityJerk
New member
Good question. Ask yourself first, the very obvious, simple question. How do you know that the bible, is the inerrant, infallible book of almighty God? Someone told you it was? You feel something special INSIDE, when you read certain verses? When you read these written words, it resonates, with you. WITH YOU. The answer to your question, is an existential one. The fact that you exist, by default, implies you are connected to God, in one way or another. No one can exist, without God's animating power and presence. The ultimate truth dwells within you, not in books.
Books have their value, but they shouldn't be ascribed a position of infallibility. The only infallible one, is God. Seek Him. Reflect and listen.
musterion
Well-known member
Be clear. In one sentence, what is the alternative to believing the Bible can be trusted as the Word of God?
RealityJerk is a heretic in disguise. Some of the things that he says are in the Bible. Which means that he got them out of the Bible or some one told him that they were in the Bible.
What happened is RealityJerk was convicted by the Holy Spirit that he was a sinner. He apparently turned to the scriptures, but after reading some of it he didn't like what it said and rejected it.
What happened is RealityJerk was convicted by the Holy Spirit that he was a sinner. He apparently turned to the scriptures, but after reading some of it he didn't like what it said and rejected it.
RealityJerk
New member
That's a false, arbitrary requirement, for conveying truth. It supposedly must be conveyed in one sentence or it's false. Right? I was clear, perhaps you're the one who's not. Don't shift the burden of proof on me, it's up to you to prove the extraordinary claim, that your book is the infallible book of God.
The gospel of the Kingdom, is preached, with or without a bible. The gospel was preached before there was ever a bible. Bibles, books, are not a requirement for having a relationship with God. If you claim that your book is the infallible word of God, then it's up to you, not me, to show how that is so.
Only a lying spirit would say such nonsense.
It has not been me addressing the Lord GOD Almight as "GAWWWDDD", but you.
Not much of a respsonse, as I have never claimed that ekklesia is a building.
What is it with you, arguing against something I never said?
You do realize that is called a 'straw man', don't you?
Cool.
Me either.
Now what?
What's the name of this evil spirit you speak of?
The god of Islam has no son.
The true GOD does.
You are delusional, a poor debater, and a straw man chaser.
RealityJerk
New member
Robert the great pontif of Christianity, has declared me a heretic. People being convicted by the holy spirit, is a reality, not a book.
Yes, we should all be convicted by the holy spirit, and live in repentance. The holy spirit doesn't need a book to convict or guide anyone to divine truth. I just don't assume that your "infallible answer book" , upon which your relationship and allegiance to God hinges upon, is the infallible word of God. I can actually have faith in Jesus Christ and experience His presence, without believing that a book is infallible. You apparently can't, because you don't really have a relationship with God, you have an inordinate attachment to a book. You've made that your God.
Yes, we should all be convicted by the holy spirit, and live in repentance. The holy spirit doesn't need a book to convict or guide anyone to divine truth. I just don't assume that your "infallible answer book" , upon which your relationship and allegiance to God hinges upon, is the infallible word of God. I can actually have faith in Jesus Christ and experience His presence, without believing that a book is infallible. You apparently can't, because you don't really have a relationship with God, you have an inordinate attachment to a book. You've made that your God.
Many people in this country don't speak Greek so your point is moot.
After all, the Anglo-Saxons gave us the English language.
What's important is what the word church means in English, not Greek or Hebrew or Chinese.
I believe God can speak and understand English and knows what we mean by the word church.
The problem with your straw man premise is that very few, if any, say you must first have a bible to read in order to be saved.
One can be saved without ever having read or heard of the bible.
What is evident is that one that knows GOD would not demean scripture as untrustworthy.
Nor would they make fun of how they address GOD.
Without the Bible we know nothing. What you have is a mystical relationship with Christ which is very Catholic. Do you know how you are justified? No you don't know that because you don't read the Bible. Without the Bible you are like a ship that is without a rudder. All that you have to rely upon is your emotions which is variable. You need to get into the Bible so that you know what you believe, as it is now you know nothing. Jesus Chose the 12 apostles for the purpose of being witnesses to the Christ event. Thankfully the Jews were very good about recording what Jesus said and did. If you had the Holy Spirit the Spirit would lead you into the Bible so that you can learn and know more about Jesus.
"This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us" (Acts 7:38)
Again, where has anyone in this thread said that the Holy Spirit is a book?
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." (Matthew 24:24)
Scripture is how we synchronize with Christ's voice. Otherwise, it's just noise.
RealityJerk
New member
Tambora writes:
Only a lying spirit would say such nonsense.
It has not been me addressing the Lord GOD Almight as "GAWWWDDD", but you.
Response:
I'm making fun of you, not God. If you don't realize that, to bad, that's your problem, not mine.
Tambora:
Not much of a respsonse, as I have never claimed that ekklesia is a building.
What is it with you, arguing against something I never said?
You do realize that is called a 'straw man', don't you?*
Response:
You should know about strawmen, being how you often resort to them. The English word “church” is not an accurate translation of the Greek ekklesia, even Tyndale knew that, and used the word “church” to describe pagan temples. It's derived from the name of the Greek goddess Circ. From the name of this pagan, demonic goddess, we get the English word “church” and circus. It's a perfect word to describe the congregation of bible worshiping clowns like yourself.
Tambora:
What's the name of this evil spirit you speak of?
Response:
You have a serious reading comprehension problem
Tambora:
You are delusional, a poor debater, and a straw man chaser.
Response:
Your critique is quite laughable and ironic, coming from a bible worshiping clown like yourself, with a reading comprehension problem.
Only a lying spirit would say such nonsense.
It has not been me addressing the Lord GOD Almight as "GAWWWDDD", but you.
Response:
I'm making fun of you, not God. If you don't realize that, to bad, that's your problem, not mine.
Tambora:
Not much of a respsonse, as I have never claimed that ekklesia is a building.
What is it with you, arguing against something I never said?
You do realize that is called a 'straw man', don't you?*
Response:
You should know about strawmen, being how you often resort to them. The English word “church” is not an accurate translation of the Greek ekklesia, even Tyndale knew that, and used the word “church” to describe pagan temples. It's derived from the name of the Greek goddess Circ. From the name of this pagan, demonic goddess, we get the English word “church” and circus. It's a perfect word to describe the congregation of bible worshiping clowns like yourself.
Tambora:
What's the name of this evil spirit you speak of?
Response:
You have a serious reading comprehension problem
Tambora:
You are delusional, a poor debater, and a straw man chaser.
Response:
Your critique is quite laughable and ironic, coming from a bible worshiping clown like yourself, with a reading comprehension problem.