beloved57
Well-known member
You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost, denying that Christ death alone saved them He died for!
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"The Gospel Plus Nothing and Nothing But the Gospel"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
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You love to say that so and so says God is unjust... but you remove Choice from Love and have God sacrificing His Creations to Himself... before they are ever born... or... you have God serving up a Divine Lottary for salvation... and the really dumb one... you have God enacting Gangster employment of Satan... who is within "God's Will"... by your belief system!
God isn't a control freak and deals with people and even angels.. going "outside" of His Will!
Wake up chuckles the clown! God saves totally! He will save many that don't even know the Name of Jesus Christ... by what He accomplished! It's Complete! It's total! Election doesn't SAVE... Jesus' Death, Burial and Reasurection Does! All models of salvation are simply ripples from the event of Calvary and the work of Jesus in such!
Your accusations are empty and show that false witness against fellow believers is more important to you than binding in unity to believers in Jesus Christ!
You reject all non CALVINIST's... but spoiler alert... GOD won't hyphenate... at the close of all this and Calvin's ideas about who God is will be as effective as every other human beings. God didn't need Calvin to spell out His Love and completed it all at "IT IS FINISHED"!
The rest is dispensation of His Love in relation to time, person, place and His relationship with each of us!
God adjusts His approach like a Kindergarten teacher gets on a knee to look into the eyes of their students and to avoid making them feel bullied and Coerced!
Bang... Bang... Bang... is anybody in there? I hope so! Kick Calvin out and give Jesus Christ full reign and dominion!
RealityJerk
New member
Cry all you want about my supposed insincerity, it only proves you're unable to defend your charge against me. Now have the last word, and delude yourself into thinking you've won something.
RealityJerk
New member
Evil Eye writes:
Any scholar of Torah... Worth two grains of salt... knows that Torah means LAW. The book of the Law... which spans Genesis to Deuteronomy. Pentateuch!
Response:
H8451
תּרה / תּורה
tôrâh
BDB Definition:
1) law, direction, instruction
1a) instruction, direction (human or divine)
1a1) body of prophetic teaching
1a2) instruction in Messianic age
1a3) body of priestly direction or instruction
1a4) body of legal directives
1b) law
1b1) law of the burnt offering
1b2) of special law, codes of law
1c) custom, manner
1d) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3384
The Hebrew word Torah, has a broader meaning than just “Law” or the five books of Moses aka “Pentateuch”. However, I never suggested that the five books of Moses aren’t Torah, that’s your straw man argument.
According to the five books of Moses, Abraham kept Torah:
Gen_26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws (TORAH).
According to you, “Torah”, is just the Pentateuch? If that’s so, how did Abraham keep the Law of Moses, when Moses wasn’t even alive at the time of Abraham? The word, torah, means “instruction/s”, and it can mean “divine instruction” or divine law. The context determines how we should define the word. So, your assertion that “Torah” just means the law of Moses is incorrect.
Evil eye writes:
Moses even writes of this. Your heart is deceitful if you believe you even keep the 10. Being God is the underwritten implication of the 10. Mankind breaks the 10 in their hearts and minds more than mankind breaths breath in a collective day! Do you claim to perfectly keep the 10?
Response:
The Hebrew bible tells us:
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a righteous man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
I Ki. 8:46; II Chron. 6:36-40: “If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin.if they repent forgive your people.”
No one is absolutely perfect, except God Himself. Nonetheless, a person doesn’t have to be absolutely perfect, for God to consider them righteous:
Gen_7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Noah was deemed righteous, by God Himself, yet he wasn’t absolutely perfect. Man’s righteousness is a conditional, qualified one, yet nonetheless, recognized by God as genuine righteousness.
“The path of the righteous is as a shining light which grows steadily brighter until full day” (Prov. 4:18).
Righteousness is dynamic. The righteous go “from strength to strength” (Ps. 84:7), ever learning and accumulating merit through their righteous deeds.
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job_1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job_2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Psa_18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa_37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psa_37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
Psa_111:1 Praise ye the LORD. I will praise the LORD with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.
1Ki_11:34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:
1Ki_11:38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.
1Ki_14:8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;
David is counted as righteous, in spite of his imperfections. He followed God, with ALL of his heart, and that’s what God wants. Wholeheartedness. Being wholehearted with God. Notice, God says that David kept his commandments. Does that imply that David never sinned? No, of course not, but David was wholehearted, with God. So God considers David’s devotion, in such a way, that he could say “ David kept my commandments”.
Even the Christian bible, the gospel of Luke tells us:
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
According to the gospel of Luke, John The Baptist’s parents, kept ALL of the commandments and ordinances of the Lord, BLAMELESSLY. Does that mean they were absolutely perfect and sinless? No. But they met God’s standard for righteousness, for them. God has a standard for them, and they met it, hence they are counted as righteous and blameless.
There are many examples in the Hebrew bible, and even in the Christian bible, of people who were righteous and upright, keeping all of the commandments. So your claim that we can’t meet God’s standard for us, is a lie. Christian gobbledygook / mysticism. It amounts to nothing, because God Himself recognizes that the righteous exist and keep His commandments.
Another misconception that you’re suffering from is , the skewed notion that every law in the Torah, applies to EVERYONE. No, that’s not the case. Some commandments apply to men, others to women. Some laws apply to priests and not to others. Some laws apply to kings, to merchants..etc. You get the point.
All laws don’t apply to you. Moreover, some laws apply only within a certain situation or context. To give you an example..If you’re not driving your car now, the transit laws don’t concern you. You don’t have to observe traffic laws, when you’re not driving your car. When you hop in your car and drive on the street, you need to follow the traffic laws. Stop at a red light, go on green. Don’t make a left turn when there’s a red light. Let the pedestrians cross the street, before you make the right turn..etc. Those are the traffic laws, that only apply to you, when you’re driving in traffic.
I could go on, showing you from the bible, how the righteous have always existed, and how one is righteous, according to their fruit, their behavior, not their religious beliefs.
The rest of your post, is just a bunch of incoherent drivel. So I will end my response here.
Any editing that I do on this post, after being posted, will be to fix typos. The content, will remain the same.
Any scholar of Torah... Worth two grains of salt... knows that Torah means LAW. The book of the Law... which spans Genesis to Deuteronomy. Pentateuch!
Response:
H8451
תּרה / תּורה
tôrâh
BDB Definition:
1) law, direction, instruction
1a) instruction, direction (human or divine)
1a1) body of prophetic teaching
1a2) instruction in Messianic age
1a3) body of priestly direction or instruction
1a4) body of legal directives
1b) law
1b1) law of the burnt offering
1b2) of special law, codes of law
1c) custom, manner
1d) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3384
The Hebrew word Torah, has a broader meaning than just “Law” or the five books of Moses aka “Pentateuch”. However, I never suggested that the five books of Moses aren’t Torah, that’s your straw man argument.
According to the five books of Moses, Abraham kept Torah:
Gen_26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws (TORAH).
According to you, “Torah”, is just the Pentateuch? If that’s so, how did Abraham keep the Law of Moses, when Moses wasn’t even alive at the time of Abraham? The word, torah, means “instruction/s”, and it can mean “divine instruction” or divine law. The context determines how we should define the word. So, your assertion that “Torah” just means the law of Moses is incorrect.
Evil eye writes:
Moses even writes of this. Your heart is deceitful if you believe you even keep the 10. Being God is the underwritten implication of the 10. Mankind breaks the 10 in their hearts and minds more than mankind breaths breath in a collective day! Do you claim to perfectly keep the 10?
Response:
The Hebrew bible tells us:
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a righteous man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
I Ki. 8:46; II Chron. 6:36-40: “If they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin.if they repent forgive your people.”
No one is absolutely perfect, except God Himself. Nonetheless, a person doesn’t have to be absolutely perfect, for God to consider them righteous:
Gen_7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Noah was deemed righteous, by God Himself, yet he wasn’t absolutely perfect. Man’s righteousness is a conditional, qualified one, yet nonetheless, recognized by God as genuine righteousness.
“The path of the righteous is as a shining light which grows steadily brighter until full day” (Prov. 4:18).
Righteousness is dynamic. The righteous go “from strength to strength” (Ps. 84:7), ever learning and accumulating merit through their righteous deeds.
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job_1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job_2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Psa_18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa_37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psa_37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
Psa_111:1 Praise ye the LORD. I will praise the LORD with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.
1Ki_11:34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:
1Ki_11:38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.
1Ki_14:8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;
David is counted as righteous, in spite of his imperfections. He followed God, with ALL of his heart, and that’s what God wants. Wholeheartedness. Being wholehearted with God. Notice, God says that David kept his commandments. Does that imply that David never sinned? No, of course not, but David was wholehearted, with God. So God considers David’s devotion, in such a way, that he could say “ David kept my commandments”.
Even the Christian bible, the gospel of Luke tells us:
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
According to the gospel of Luke, John The Baptist’s parents, kept ALL of the commandments and ordinances of the Lord, BLAMELESSLY. Does that mean they were absolutely perfect and sinless? No. But they met God’s standard for righteousness, for them. God has a standard for them, and they met it, hence they are counted as righteous and blameless.
There are many examples in the Hebrew bible, and even in the Christian bible, of people who were righteous and upright, keeping all of the commandments. So your claim that we can’t meet God’s standard for us, is a lie. Christian gobbledygook / mysticism. It amounts to nothing, because God Himself recognizes that the righteous exist and keep His commandments.
Another misconception that you’re suffering from is , the skewed notion that every law in the Torah, applies to EVERYONE. No, that’s not the case. Some commandments apply to men, others to women. Some laws apply to priests and not to others. Some laws apply to kings, to merchants..etc. You get the point.
All laws don’t apply to you. Moreover, some laws apply only within a certain situation or context. To give you an example..If you’re not driving your car now, the transit laws don’t concern you. You don’t have to observe traffic laws, when you’re not driving your car. When you hop in your car and drive on the street, you need to follow the traffic laws. Stop at a red light, go on green. Don’t make a left turn when there’s a red light. Let the pedestrians cross the street, before you make the right turn..etc. Those are the traffic laws, that only apply to you, when you’re driving in traffic.
I could go on, showing you from the bible, how the righteous have always existed, and how one is righteous, according to their fruit, their behavior, not their religious beliefs.
The rest of your post, is just a bunch of incoherent drivel. So I will end my response here.
Any editing that I do on this post, after being posted, will be to fix typos. The content, will remain the same.
Last edited:
RealityJerk
New member
Nothing will save you from eternal annihilation, apart from your character and behavior. The quality of your thoughts and actions, determines your state after bodily death. You should simply focus on your life, here. The one you actually have, and fulfill your responsibilities and obligations here. The afterlife, will take care of it self. Walk with God here, in this life, and ultimately, all will be well with you.
All of your religious mysticism and theological speculations, aren't going to help you. The path of decency, the one that builds a good character, resulting in a clear conscience, is the key to developing, strengthening your soul and fearlessly entering eternity, at peace, with yourself and God. Stop hankering after eternal life, and seek the author of life. God owes us nothing, not even this life. So be thankful to God for what you have now, and let God take care of the "afterlife". That's the path of the prophets, one of complete commitment to YHWH. Life after death or no life, they dedicated, consecrated, themselves to the God that granted them the previledge and opportunity, to live, this life.
That's what it means to be wholehearted with God. Being grateful to God, for this life and walking on the path of decency. Being a good, decent person.
All of your religious mysticism and theological speculations, aren't going to help you. The path of decency, the one that builds a good character, resulting in a clear conscience, is the key to developing, strengthening your soul and fearlessly entering eternity, at peace, with yourself and God. Stop hankering after eternal life, and seek the author of life. God owes us nothing, not even this life. So be thankful to God for what you have now, and let God take care of the "afterlife". That's the path of the prophets, one of complete commitment to YHWH. Life after death or no life, they dedicated, consecrated, themselves to the God that granted them the previledge and opportunity, to live, this life.
That's what it means to be wholehearted with God. Being grateful to God, for this life and walking on the path of decency. Being a good, decent person.
beloved57
Well-known member
More insincerity !
RealityJerk
New member
If I'm insincere, for not making the unnecessary effort, of combing through your past posts, looking for an answer, then you're more insencere for refusing to defend your accusation, and expecting others to jump through your hoops.
You're silly.
You're silly.
beloved57
Well-known member
More worthless chatter!
RealityJerk
New member
The worthless chatter is yours, for not being able to defend your claims, here on the forum.
beloved57
Well-known member
Continues!
RealityJerk
New member
Yes, that's the purpose of a discussion board/forum. To discuss the issues.
beloved57
Well-known member
Continues still
RealityJerk
New member
I continue to challenge you, and you continue to run from debate. Why is that? Are you afraid of debate? I'm not.