The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

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JudgeRightly said:
I don't see any clouds that are behind any celestial objects. I see light shining through the very thin clouds in your previous post that claims there are "two horizons", but I don't see any clouds behind the sun.
Click to expand...

Check out the videos, enjoy the music too.

--Dave
 
DFT_Dave

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Derf said:
I think the only thing that video proves is that guy who filmed it does NOT believe what he is pushing. You can tell because he had to set the table up so that it was ABOVE the level of the camera, thus causing the dime to sink out of sight as it moved away from the viewer.

You can also tell by looking at the windowsill behind the table with the flower pots on it. The setup was done deliberately to make it look like there was something on the at the end of the table at the same level, to make it seem like the viewer could see all the way across the table. Look at time 1:01 on the video compared to 1:05, which shows the view from above the table, including the windowsill. It is obvious that the windowsill is higher than the table. So, with the table above the viewing angle of the camera, the dime would "sink" below the horizon. This would be similar to watching the sunrise or sunset from slightly below ground level, but not at all similar to what a viewer would see if watching a sun at 3000 miles above the flat earth.

The funny thing is that when I viewed it on youtube (to avoid missing the right side of it due to the frame widths in TOL), the automatic following video was one that was debunking the flat earth model.:doh:
Click to expand...

Yes, there are videos that present both positions. The experiments on table are only to make a point, not to be exact. If you can see an error in an experiment you think you have debunked the point it's making? We have to watch many videos and compare them and eventually one view will prevail over the other.

--Dave
 
DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

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Clete said:
Saying it doesn't make it so.


Precisely my point, Dave!

Contrary to what you're suggesting, the vast majority of scientists are not members of some secret society which is promoting some grand anti-Christian conspiracy. On the contrary, the fathers of most any science you care to name were all Christian men who, because of the rational nature of both existence and the Christian faith, as well as a curiosity to understand the world around us and thereby to better understand the God who created it, explored and investigated nature with an intransigent search for the truth and who's work still exists for anyone who wants to look at and to verify. Newton's work, in particular, has been studied, scrutinized, tested, verified and reverified more than any other scientific work in the whole history of mankind. Newton's work did not rest on his intuition or on purely mental exercises as Aristotle's worldview did. It was worked out by way of a very methodical process of observation and real-world, empirical, experimental results that, as I just mentioned, has been repeated countless times by other scientists over the last several centuries.

Newton's science is entirely contrary to the FEM (Flat Earth Model). They cannot both be true. Either Newton was wrong or you are. Where is the science that supports the FEM? Where are the published experimental results? Where is the evidence, Dave?

It DOES NOT EXIST because the Earth is not flat, which has not only been argued, with very little to basically no response from you whatsoever, but it has, in fact, been proven multiple times and in multiple ways on this thread. All of which is all still here for everyone to read and/or watch or listen too. (i.e. No one has to take my word for it.)

Indeed, if it could be proven that the Bible taught that the Earth is flat, that single point alone would be sufficient to disprove the divine inspiration of the Bible and thereby falsify both Judaism and Christianity and people would be right to reject it as a fairy tale.

Clete
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I will reply to your post twice. First, you missed this from one of my previous posts. Your faith in our cosmology forefathers is not exactly Christian.

"According to most scholars, Newton was Arian, not holding to Trinitarianism. 'In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'."--Wiki

Newton is said to have been anti Trinitarian. That means he denied the deity of Christ. There is nothing in Genesis or any where else in the Bible that presents a Copernican Universe. The globe earth begins with pagan Greeks. Newton, as with his predecessors, was attempting a synthesis of Greek cosmology with Biblical Revelation.

"Newton developed truly heretical ideas. Fascinated by the trinity, he was impassioned by the conflict between the orthodox, led by Athanasius in the fourth century, and the disciples of Arius. Arius believed that God was one, and that the trinity could not be. Newton, according to Richard Westfall, became convinced bit by bit “that a massive fraud had perverted the legacy of the early church.” Newton considered the worship of Christ, in place of God, to be idolatrous. But living in a completely orthodox Cambridge where his own master, Barrow, defended the trinity, Newton did not express his views publicly."--ISAAC NEWTON'S FREEMASONRY The Alchemy of Science and Mysticism

Belief in God is not the same thing as belief in the deity of Christ, Christianity is the latter not the former.

--Dave
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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DFT_Dave said:
I have never said how far the sun and moon are from the earth. They are very far away as per globe model or they are very close as per flat earth model. The video evidence says very close.

--Dave
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Most Flat Earth folks say the sun and the moon are about 300 miles above the earth. I understand now you don't necessarily agree with that which is fine.

Approximately how far above the earth do you believe the sun and the moon are?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
DFT_Dave said:
Wow...what a great response!

But in a debate we try to make meaningful arguments and counter arguments or present videos that do the same.

--Dave
Click to expand...
You have "debated" nothing Dave.

You just show a silly video and say "See there".

During a sunrise the sun light can shine below SOME of the clouds that surround the GLOBE.

It's not a problem for the non-"flat earth" model because we understand SIMPLE geometry.
 
DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

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Clete said:
Saying it doesn't make it so.

Precisely my point, Dave!

Contrary to what you're suggesting, the vast majority of scientists are not members of some secret society which is promoting some grand anti-Christian conspiracy. On the contrary, the fathers of most any science you care to name were all Christian men who, because of the rational nature of both existence and the Christian faith, as well as a curiosity to understand the world around us and thereby to better understand the God who created it, explored and investigated nature with an intransigent search for the truth and who's work still exists for anyone who wants to look at and to verify. Newton's work, in particular, has been studied, scrutinized, tested, verified and reverified more than any other scientific work in the whole history of mankind. Newton's work did not rest on his intuition or on purely mental exercises as Aristotle's worldview did. It was worked out by way of a very methodical process of observation and real-world, empirical, experimental results that, as I just mentioned, has been repeated countless times by other scientists over the last several centuries.

Newton's science is entirely contrary to the FEM (Flat Earth Model). They cannot both be true. Either Newton was wrong or you are. Where is the science that supports the FEM? Where are the published experimental results? Where is the evidence, Dave?

It DOES NOT EXIST because the Earth is not flat, which has not only been argued, with very little to basically no response from you whatsoever, but it has, in fact, been proven multiple times and in multiple ways on this thread. All of which is all still here for everyone to read and/or watch or listen too. (i.e. No one has to take my word for it.)

Indeed, if it could be proven that the Bible taught that the Earth is flat, that single point alone would be sufficient to disprove the divine inspiration of the Bible and thereby falsify both Judaism and Christianity and people would be right to reject it as a fairy tale.

Clete
Click to expand...

I have presented, and will continue to present, all the evidence for a flat stationary earth. Which you have not answered.

I will go into scripture and see all the evidence for the same.

Let's see where your faith stands.

--Dave
 
DFT_Dave

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Knight said:
Most Flat Earth folks say the sun and the moon are about 300 miles above the earth. I understand now you don't necessarily agree with that which is fine.

Approximately how far above the earth do you believe the sun and the moon are?
Click to expand...

The videos give us a good idea, but the point is the earth is stationary and flat with a close sun and moon circling it or it's not.

--Dave
 
Derf

Derf

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DFT_Dave said:
Yes, there are videos that present both positions. The experiments on table are only to make a point, not to be exact. If you can see an error in an experiment you think you have debunked the point it's making? We have to watch many videos and compare them and eventually one view will prevail over the other.

--Dave
Click to expand...

No, I'm just saying that the video, which you claim and it claims is "THE most undeniable proof of the Flat Earth SUN!", is a fraud. And if THE most undeniable proof of the Flat Earth SUN is a fraud, what does that say about the model?

And we shouldn't just want a view to prevail over another view. We want truth to prevail.

And if either view is presenting false evidence, it needs to be recognized and eliminated from consideration. I don't see you doing that with the false evidence that you've presented.

Why not?
 
DFT_Dave

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Derf said:
No, I'm just saying that the video, which you claim and it claims is "THE most undeniable proof of the Flat Earth SUN!", is a fraud. And if THE most undeniable proof of the Flat Earth SUN is a fraud, what does that say about the model?

And we shouldn't just want a view to prevail over another view. We want truth to prevail.

And if either view is presenting false evidence, it needs to be recognized and eliminated from consideration. I don't see you doing that with the false evidence that you've presented.

Why not?
Click to expand...

I don't create videos for flat earth or NASA. I watch both, and I have watched many, for many hours.

I do far more than anyone see's. You may see a video as fraud where someone else may not. NASA, in my opinion, has presented both authentic and fraudulent video, as have flat earth folk.

A pattern will eventually arise, consistencies and inconsistencies will become evident.

The truth is the earth is flat or it's not, it's a globe or it's not. The mystery exists because we are told one thing while we normally experience the other.

--Dave
 
DFT_Dave

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Knight said:
Dave I haven't watched all the videos.

Can you just tell me in your own words (based on "the videos") how high the sun and the moon are above the earth? Approximations are fine with me.
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Why should I approximate it?

--Dave
 
DFT_Dave

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Right Divider said:
You have "debated" nothing Dave.

You just show a silly video and say "See there".

During a sunrise the sun light can shine below SOME of the clouds that surround the GLOBE.

It's not a problem for the non-"flat earth" model because we understand SIMPLE geometry.
Click to expand...

I don't say, see there, the person who made the video might be saying that or not. You have to watch them to find out.

I have a graphic art back ground and produced a number of magazines and designed many book covers. A video can tell you so much about this subject that geometry cannot.

Everything in physics "begins" with what we see not what we calculate.

The videos are not silly, they contain visual evidence that must be evaluated along side other visual evidence.

I didn't start this thread to confirm the globe but to challenge it.

The videos answer the questions asked, but they in turn must be challenged as well.

I am making a case for flat earth and I want to see if it will hold up. But sadly most of you are not evaluating the case being made because you won't view the videos. Just affirming the other side does nothing to defeat flat earth evidence.

I learned all I could about classical theology before I destroyed it. I learned all I could about evolution before I destroyed it. Get the the point? I'm going to destroy one of these views, in my mind that is, by the time I'm satisfied I have evaluated both side adequate and fairly.

I started the thread, I start the argument, I have the opening move. The videos are part of my argument, so make a good counter argument that will challenge me.

Not that there have not been some very good challenges already, there have been some very good ones. Flat earth video is being challenged online anyway and I have been keeping up with it to see how it goes.

Make my day, make some arguments against the videos. Feel lucky, Punk?

--Dave :AoO:
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

DFT_Dave said:
Why should I approximate it?

--Dave
Click to expand...

Why not?

I'm just trying to understand your point of view. I'm trying to be civil and give you the benefit of the doubt. I want to have a conversation with you.

Do you think...

A. The clouds are much higher than we think?

Or...

B. The sun is less than 5 miles above the earth?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
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