The citadel of free will is a mirage.

[intojoy]

Well perhaps God wants to give credit to us in the eternal order for choosing Him. Who knows.


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[Tambora]

Out of context from Truster's point because Jehovah there addressed the nation of Israel as a national elected entity and not individually elected persons.


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Whether the request was to one or a thousand, there was a choice of two options to pick from.

 

[Nihilo]

And what exactly was Martin Luther an authority on? Jews?

I don't know, what?

 

[Truster]

And what exactly was Martin Luther an authority on? Jews?


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Luther was a master of the art of deceit. It was from Luther that Tyndale had the idea of transliterating Gott into God and in that one move we lost the Title Elohim and began using the name of idols.

 

[Nang]

Luther was a master of the art of deceit. It was from Luther that Tyndale had the idea of transliterating Gott into God and in that one move we lost the Title Elohim and began using the name of idols.

Idolatry originates in the heart, not the spoken tongue . . .

 

[Nihilo]

I have my own copies, one published by Baker and the 2nd by Revell. The first translated by Henry Cole and the second by J.I. Packer & O.R. Johnston.

If anyone would give me a direct quote to substantiate what Nihilo is suggesting, I can compare with these two publications, and perhaps clarify what I consider to be a misrepresentation of the teachings of Martin Luther.

In my Revell (ninth printing, 1997), pages 157-163, section titled, " (viii) Deut. 30.19, etc.: the law is designed to give knowledge of sin (676-680) "

Show me where I'm wrong.

You too [MENTION=15467]Truster[/MENTION]

 

[Nang]

In my Revell (ninth printing, 1997), pages 157-163, section titled, " (viii) Deut. 30.19, etc.: the law is designed to give knowledge of sin (676-680) "

Show me where I'm wrong.

You too [MENTION=15467]Truster[/MENTION]

How does this comport with your interpretation expressed thusly:

"Martin Luther in his Bondage of the Will argued that God's commands were, in essence, idle. That they are written only to show us what we can't do, and that God knew we couldn't obey Him when He wrote the Scripture; something deeply cynical and fatalistic like that. I think Protestants should know that better, so that they know the intellectual foundation upon which we stand, so that we can be careful."

The first purpose of the Law that reveals sinners' inability to perform the Law, is not "idle" at all, but leads to the second purpose of the Law, which is to draw sinners to their need of a Savior.

It is your description of this first purpose of the law, being "deeply cynical and fatalistic" that is in error.

And it was not the intent or the language of Luther's teachings.

 

[Truster]

In my Revell (ninth printing, 1997), pages 157-163, section titled, " (viii) Deut. 30.19, etc.: the law is designed to give knowledge of sin (676-680) "

Show me where I'm wrong.

You too [MENTION=15467]Truster[/MENTION]

You are correct. My apologies. I was reading into what you said instead of reading what you said. I'm pleased I made the mistake as I just spent an enjoyable 15 minutes reading the chapter.

 

[Truster]

PS You are correct about what Martin wrote, but I disagree with your "idle" comment.

 

[Epoisses]

Predestination is a mis-translation. The correct and more powerfilled term is predetermination. The Almighty has foreknowledge of all that occurs in time, because He predetermined all in a single decree.

That's whom I serve, worship and trust.

The "god" of your imagination turns this way and that at every event that takes it by surprise. You're welcome to keep it.

Then he predetermined for you to be an idiot which is not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Nang]

PS You are correct about what Martin wrote, but I disagree with your "idle" comment.

Exactly.

 

[Epoisses]

Luther was a master of the art of deceit. It was from Luther that Tyndale had the idea of transliterating Gott into God and in that one move we lost the Title Elohim and began using the name of idols.

Reformed just hate Luther with a passion! He could drink them all under the table, lol. That's my kind of theologian.

 

[Nang]

Reformed just hate Luther with a passion! He could drink them all under the table, lol. That's my kind of theologian.

I am a Reformer, and I do not hate Luther.

Also, I deny he was a "master of deceit."

He was saved by the miracle of regeneration and being gifted with faith, apart from his old brainwashings of necessary religious works, and was used by God to reform the church of God from the oppressions of the RCC.

He was an imperfect sinner, but He was God's instrument, to free others from spiritual bondage to the "free-will" obligation of serving God through religious ritual, apart from grace, alone, because of the truth all Christ died for are justified by faith in Him, alone.

 

[Epoisses]

I am a Reformer, and I do not hate Luther.

Also, I deny he was a "master of deceit."

He was saved by the miracle of regeneration and being gifted with faith, apart from his old brainwashings of necessary religious works, and was used by God to reform the church of God from the oppressions of the RCC.

He was an imperfect sinner, but He was God's instrument, to free others from spiritual bondage to the "free-will" obligation of serving God through religious ritual, apart from grace, alone.

I reject free-will so what. I also reject a limited atonement as well.

 

[Nihilo]

God authored "choice" and "free will" as a means and display of His Sovereignty and perfect nature.

Is that outside of your perspective, or pretty close?

I like it, but I'm not sure that it's saying much beyond "it is what it is," just in a different way. But I do believe in it is what it is.

 

[Nihilo]

You are correct. My apologies. I was reading into what you said instead of reading what you said.

That's decent of you Truster, thank you.

I'm pleased I made the mistake as I just spent an enjoyable 15 minutes reading the chapter.

LOL, I'm glad you liked it. Martin Luther would fit right in at TOL IMO . . . .

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

What is your basis for concluding this passage speaks of Satan?

:doh:

 

[glorydaz]

You require the Almighty to bow to the erroneous doctrine of the power of man's free will. He will not and neither will I. Nice try at twisting the meaning of my words, but your lack of understanding does not make my words invalid. I refuse to speak peace to you for the reasons given in my signature.

This could work out well for all those on TOL.

Bluster will continue to exclude us until he is left with only Squeaky and God's Untruth. :banana:

 

[Eagles Wings]

:doh:

Well?

:scripto:

What say you?

I love this little scribbler!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Well?

:scripto:

What say you?

I love this little scribbler!

Fair enough... if you want a larger explainatiin, I'll give it tomorrow... but the Kings in Ezekiel are representing the authority that is over them. The wicked kings that oppress Israel... that is. There is an enormous amount of typification of Satan in there.

Isaiah 14 is another well known place and pride binds to Satan faster then all other traits. There is actually an enormous amount in Ezekiel about Satan.

There are tip offs. Ezekiel 27-28 and actually many other places show the abuse of power by the one that was defeated exactly as Heb. 2:14 states.

I would be willing to launch an OP... but I'm pretty heavy in this area and I do my best to keep discussion about the Adversary to necessity.

If you are theologically curious... I'll launch an OP with many of the passages. It all binds together and gives a more genuine picture of the enemy of God than most have.

The way the accuser worked and works is exposed on an enormous level. It helps with discernment and an understanding of how the lion devours.

He's actually a defeated dog on a leash now... but he can still deceive and cause many to stumble.