who do you trust?
-I trust the church that Jesus built on a rock
-it is right there in your bible
-the church gave us the bible
-I trust the church that Jesus built on a rock
-it is right there in your bible
-the church gave us the bible
the church
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
heir
TOL Subscriber
I trust the Lord Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
at least it is more than one verse
heir
TOL Subscriber
Why haven't you trusted the Lord?
I don't trust your interpretation
heir
TOL Subscriber
Why haven't you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation as the verse says?
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
it is easy to misunderstand some of the paul verses
heir
TOL Subscriber
In the Bible, only for someone who had never heard or was not being preached Paul's gospel and doctrine
What's your excuse?
the church tells me what paul taught is no different from what the apostles taught
-it makes sense
heir
TOL Subscriber
Your "the church" has been lying to people from the getgo (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV). Why haven't you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth when Paul shows you that is the gospel by which we are saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)?
how long have your people been teaching your interpretation of paul?
He takes the heat fine. YOU can't take the truth. When are you going to stop lying.
Dodge's capacity to lie for YEARS in a row is both amazing and disgusting at the same time.
Heir, you say you trust the Lord, yet you reject all that he established.
QUOTE:
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)
Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.
Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.
Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.
FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH
If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.
The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.
The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).
The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.
The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth
Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.
The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).
Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.
END EXCERPT QUOTE
^ A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth" (source link).
The RRC should be guilty of telling the protestants that they will go to hell if they don't convert to romanish and obey thier pope or anyone ordianed by them only. The protestants obey the pastor and elders in thier churches annd the RRC steps in and yell that they all are going b to hell.Wow. You really devastated Catholics with that barb.
If only Protestants were ever guilty of explaining away plain Scripture as figurative and not literal . . . . :think:
Not that I concede your point, mind you, which I don't. But let's say you're right---you as a Protestant are more guilty of this than the Catholic Church is, and by a wide, wide margin. Orders of magnitude.
We closed the case long time ago. Let the scientific facts take care of the proven facts on its own. Proofs are self explainatory and you doesn't need me in this discussion. The True Church is made up of all who were born again (1 Cor. 12:13). Its growth, doctrine and traditions were recorded in the New Testament. The "true church" is the one which continues the teachings and traditions of the first century church.
Nowhere in the New Testament do we find the “one true church” doing any of the following: praying to Mary and the saints, submitting to a pope, praying for souls in purgatory, offering indulgences for the remission of sin, ordaining a sacerdotal priesthood, offering a Eucharistic Christ on an altar or baptizing infants.
Jesus and His apostles warned us that His Church would have to fight against false teachers. There are repeated contrasts between the teachings of false teachers and the truth of God’s Word. Thus, the basis for determining truth from error is not based upon WHO is teaching it, but whether it is recorded in Scripture. Peter contended against false teachers by saying we have a "more sure word" to depend upon (2 Peter 1:16-21). He was referring to the written, inspired, infallible, authoritative Word of God. Scripture is therefore the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth.
No need to hurt anyone on TOL. One of the most difficult pieces of information to find are the names of all the martyrs who were murdered by the Roman Catholic Church down through the ages. These true Christians were murdered because they loved the Scriptures, had portions of a true Bible, and/or an entire Bible. The believers were hunted down and murdered by the blood thirsty men of the Inquisition. Probably no Christian group in history was persecuted more for their beliefs than the Waldensians or the Vaudoix.
Donatists - 4/5th centuries - They believed a church was for the saved only - They were persecuted upon the instigation of Augustine.
Albigenses - 12/13th centuries - Rejected Rome and placed new Testament above all the traditions and teachings of Rome
Waldensians - 11/17th centuries - Many different violent persecutions against these Believers who had the Bible handed down to them as early as the 2nd century. The cave of Castelluzzo saw the murder of hundreds of Waldensian mothers and children in 1209.
1126 - Peter of Bruis - Burned at the Stake - Rejected Rome’s traditions
1155 - Arnold of Brescia - Bible Preacher - Hanged and Burned
1211 - 80 Waldensians - burned at the stake
1215 - 80 Christians - Tried by red hot iron and burned to death the same day in Strasburg, Germany.
1237 - 15 Christians burned alive at Cerdagne and Castlebon, Spain
1315 - Waldensian Bishop Neumunster - Burned at the stake in Hamburg, Germany
1315 - 50 Women and children burned at the stake in Schweidnitz in Silesia
1386 - Christmas Eve- Inquisitor Borelli attacks Valley of Pragela; hundreds frozen to death trying to escape.
1400 - William Sawtree - Wycliffe follower - Burned at the stake
1408 - John Resby - Heresy - Burned at Perth, Scotland
1409 - Tailor named Bradbe - Wycliffe follower - Roasted alive in a barrel
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
They might lie to you.
"Romanish"? LOL! Are you retarded? Well retarded or not you ARE a liar.
You couldn't close a suitcase, let alone anything on this subject.
That's because, again, you're a liar.
You go right ahead, and show from the Catechism of the Catholic Church where this is so. Use the alphabetical index at the bottom of that webpage to help your futile search.
See above.
TulipBee will never engage in facts. Like most other protestants here (not all but most) they prefer lies and hate to Truth and Jesus.
Anything Paul wrote that is in the 66 book bible was breathed by God. Why do you say its wasn't?
The Catholics believe that Peter was the first pope.....they also believe the Roman Catholic Church started in the first century and continues to this day. Further, they believe the RCC today is IDENTICAL to the RCC of the first century....there are hundreds of problems with this declaration, but for now, let's just compare Peter to the last pope......according to the Vatican, they should be identical in teachings......please read the chart below to see the comparison of these two men and draw your OWN conclusions....(Note to Catholics: stop believing blindly what you are told to believe....think for yourself....you CAN and it is YOUR soul on the line)......look up the verses on the left....for those who don't know what CCC stands for, it refers to Catechism of the Catholic Church.....to read it, all you have to do is Google CCC and the paragraph number next to it......like CCC 882....it's easy....
This is serious stuff, my friends......the RCC claims to be infallible when speaking on matters of faith and morals.....but as you can see above, they could not be more wrong in the comparison of Peter and Benedict....so the RCC today is NOT identical to the first century church, as they proclaim 'infallibly'...and if they got THAT one wrong, down comes the entire house of infallible cards....the Catholics MUST ask themselves what ELSE they have gotten wrong.......especially with regards to SALVATION.....please share this if you like....the more people who see this, the greater the chance it will have an impact....pray that it does....thank you and love in Christ