the church

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
TulipBee will never engage in facts. Like most other protestants here (not all but most) they prefer lies and hate to Truth and Jesus.
More hocus pocus from you.

WAS THE CHURCH BUILT UPON PETER?
In their attempt to prove that the church was built upon
the apostle Peter, Catholics go to Matthew 16:18, where the
apostle records that Jesus stated, “And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my
church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
Let us examine this passage. In the Greek language, “Peter”
is in the masculine gender (petros). Petros means a small
stone or pebble. Jesus used the feminine gender in the Greek
language for “rock” (petra) when He said, “upon this rock
I will build my church.” Petra means a ledge or cliff of
rock. In the light of the meaning of these two Greek words,
translated “rock” in Matthew 16:18, are we to conclude that
Jesus built His church on a pebble, or a cliff of rock? Indeed,
Jesus built His church on the foundation rock of truth that
Peter confessed, namely, that Jesus is, “the Christ, the Son
of the living God,” the New English Bible notwithstanding
(Mat. 16:16).
Catholics try to attack the previous “gender argument”
by pointing out that Jesus spoke Aramaic and not Greek; that
the book of Matthew originally appeared in Aramaic and,
unlike Greek, the genders are the same in Aramaic. I point
out that it is Catholic tradition—nothing more, nothing less,
and nothing else—that says the book of Matthew originally
appeared in Aramaic. It is merely a Catholic assertion that
such is the case. Where is the proof? Furthermore, if Jesus
originally spoke the words of Matthew 16:16 in Aramaic, it
was the Holy Spirit Who infallibly guided Matthew to write
Matthew 16:18 in Greek. Does anyone doubt that the Holy
Spirit knew how to say infallibly in Greek what Jesus said
infallibly in Aramaic—and, thus the different tenses?
Please consider the following points regarding the tenses
in Matthew 16:18:
1. The oldest Greek manuscripts have the words petros
and petra in this verse.
2. It is against sound rules of Biblical interpretation
(hermeneutics) to have Peter being the doorkeeper and at
the same time the foundation. At times, Jesus is called the
builder, the purchaser, the foundation, etc., of the church.
However, inspiration never has Jesus in a single figure occupying
more than one position or place at any one time.
3. Where in the New Testament does one find the apostles
and evangelists preaching, “Peter” as they planted churches?
It would seem that such would be the case if Peter—and not
Christ—was the foundation of the church. On the contrary,
as they established churches, they preached Christ as the
only foundation of the church (1 Cor. 3:11).
4. If, as the Catholics allege, it was true that the church
was built upon Peter the man, they would not be proving that
the church rested on any so-called successor or office. However,
if they mean that the church was built upon an “office,”
then it was not built on “the man” Peter. Of course, neither is
true, but this is a good example of Catholic “hocus pocus.”
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
You go right ahead, and show from the Catechism of the Catholic Church where this is so. Use the alphabetical index at the bottom of that webpage to help your futile search.
See above.
Not CCC again !!

WAS PETER AUTHORIZED TO DEFINE LAWS FOR JESUS?
In the Catholic attempt to state that Peter, and the popes
to follow him, were authorized to “define” our Lord’s laws,
they go to Matthew 16:19. In that passage, Jesus said, “I
will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound
in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall
be loosed in heaven.”
All the apostles of Christ had the same authority given
to them by Jesus as Peter did (John 20:21-23). Among other
things, in order to rightly divide the word of God (2 Tim.
2:15), one must have and examine the totality of what the
Bible says on any given subject before reasoning with the information and drawing a conclusion. Matthew 16:19 is only
part of what the Bible says on this matter—and the Catholics
do not understand it. The teaching done in Matthew 18:18
and John 20:21-23 bears on who and how many of the apostles
received authority from Jesus Christ.
The truth of the matter regarding what Matthew 16:19
literally says in the Greek language is as follows: Jesus said,
“and whatever you forbid on earth must be what is already
forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on
earth must be what is already permitted in heaven.” The
Greek terms, “must be whatever is already forbidden” and
“what is already permitted” are passive participles. The same
is true of the grammar of Matthew 18:18. Thus, the truth of
the matter is that Jesus told the apostles they were permitted
to bind only what had already been bound in heaven and
loose on earth only what had already been loosed in heaven.
The apostles of Christ are the ambassadors of Christ to
earth—eyewitnesses of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:20; Acts 1:8).
They, and they alone, possessed plenipotentiary power. This
is the authority that one ambassador from one government
has in representing his government to another. It means that
he alone may speak the official position of his government
to another government. An ambassador may not change any
part of what his government has previously determined. He
may only state it accurately. The same is true of all the apostles—not just Peter—of Jesus Christ in representing the will of the court of heaven to men on earth (John 16:13; Luke 24:29; Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 2:4; 1 Pet. 1:21). For Paul’s apostleship, see Galatians 1:11-17. Thus, Christians continue today in the apostles’ doctrine (Acts 2:42). It is interesting to note that in 1870, when Pius IX was
“defined” by the Vatican Council to be “infallible,” it was by
a majority vote of the cardinals and bishops after many days
of heated debate. The Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the
decision.
There is no Scripture that supports, 1) Peter being given
the authority Rome asserts was given to him or, 2) successors
to Peter’s office. Therefore, 3) how could Peter pass
down to his successors that which he never had?
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
"Romanish"? LOL! Are you retarded? Well retarded or not you ARE a liar.



You couldn't close a suitcase, let alone anything on this subject.



That's because, again, you're a liar.
You imagine I'm a lair on your own but Iets deal with facts.
DID CHRIST MAKE PETER HEAD OF THE CHURCH?
Catholics cite John 21:15-17 in an attempt to prove their
claim that Christ made Peter to be head over all the church.
The Scripture reads,
"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon,
son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He
saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee.
He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith unto him a
second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith
unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He
saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third
time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? And he said
unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest
that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."
In interpreting this Scripture, three assumptions are made
by Catholics:
1) That Jesus was asking Peter if he (Peter)
loved Him (Christ) more than the other apostles loved Him
(Christ);
2) that Jesus had in mind the “laity” and the “clergy” when He told Peter to, “feed my lambs” and, “Feed my sheep.” According to Catholic doctrine, this was our Lord’s way of telling Peter to take care of the whole church—“laity” and “clergy”; and,
3) that such authority was to be handed down to the popes who succeeded to Peter’s office.
It is important to understand that in the passage under
consideration Jesus employed two Greek words for “feed”
or “tend.” They are boske and poimaine. Ordinarily, boske is
rendered simply “feed.” When used figuratively, it means to
“teach.” The idea is the impartation of spiritual food. In the
New Testament, poimaine is used several time and in most
cases translated “feed.” Some versions render poimaine into
“tend.” Paul told the Ephesian elders to, “Take heed unto
yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy
Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of
God, which he hath purchased with his own blood” (Acts
20:28). In this passage the elders are commissioned to the
same thing that Peter was told to do. In this regard, Peter
later wrote,
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an
elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a
partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock
of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of
a ready mind" (1 Pet. 5:1-2).
“Feed” is translated from poimainate. Peter says it is the responsibility of all elders to do what he was to do. He was
their fellow-elder. There is nothing in the Scriptures indicating
that Peter thought of himself as the pope and, therefore,
head of all the church. It is simply a figment of Catholic
imagination.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
-the church teaches the gospel
-the gospel is the good news
-that you might be saved
-even paul says it
-it is right there in your bible
-you might be saved
-but
-you have to walk the talk
 

HisServant

New member
I repeat TulipBee: Your posts are a monument to stupidity.

How very Christian of you!... not. But it is never my execration that a Romanist would ever act like a Christian because they can just go confess their sins to a priest and do it all over again.. no sweat.

Romanism is never about modeling Christ, it is always about paying the 'church' for an out so they can continue living they way they do.
 

bcbsr

New member
The apostle Paul clearly didn't view Peter as a sort of "Pope". In fact Peter restricted his own ministry to the Jews. See Paul's rhetoric concerning his trip to the church at Jerusalem to deal with a cult that had developed them right under the nose of Peter.

Gal 2
6 As for those who seemed to be important— whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance— those men added nothing to my message.
7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews.
8 For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles.
9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.

In fact the Catholic church is a derivative of the cult of the Circumcision - a sort of Neo-Circumcision sect, given their salvation scheme, making salvation contingent upon one's compliance to Catholic rules, rituals and Catholic Canon Law contrary to the gospel Paul preached.
 

God's Truth

New member
-the church teaches the gospel
-the gospel is the good news
-that you might be saved
-even paul says it
-it is right there in your bible
-you might be saved
-but
-you have to walk the talk

Saved

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,


Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Luke 19:9
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Philippians 2:12
[ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Being Saved


1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
 

Right Divider

Body part
The apostle Paul clearly didn't view Peter as a sort of "Pope".
The apostle Peter clearly didn't view Peter as a sort of "Pope".
1Pet 5:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:1) The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The apostle Peter clearly didn't view Peter as a sort of "Pope".
1Pet 5:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:1) The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

You have to let the church interpret that for you!
You will mess it up.
 
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