The Heroic Gunslinger Fantasy

[GuySmiley]

Which brings me back to the key point - how much training should a person who pulls a firearm in public have? Are we comfortable wit the level of training and qualification currently in place, which is about none? In my mind, if somebody pulls a gun I think it should be incumbent upon them, regardless of cost, to be qualified and mentally stable enough to know exactly what they are doing.

Yes, the current level of training, being almost none, is fine. Gun accidents are already rare, as ok doser showed you. Training wont eliminate accidents, but will take away some peoples' opportunity for self defense, starting with the poor.

 

[CabinetMaker]

There is only so much action that you are allowed under the law.... Federal, State and County laws are designed to hand cuff local politicians into being good little sheep when it comes to enacting anything meaningful.

Then there is the problem of litigation.. most local municipalities just cannot afford to deal with litigation issues (we cannot print money like the fed can).

Then we are limited on how much we can raise taxes.. and if we do raise them too much, we get voted out.

For me, its a matter of finding volunteers to do stuff instead of contracting out every time a faucet leaks, the streets need swept, the park needs weeded, etc.

All our council is volunteer and there are no percs... we do it for public service. There is no retirement, no salary... the most I have ever taken from tax payers is being reimbursed for a $7.50 toilet valve for borough hall, which I installed myself.

What are you doing for your municipality... just wining about it on the internet or actually getting involved?

And as soon as someone steps up and wants my job and the rest of council thinks he/she can do better, I'll step aside.

Heck, I have a full time job, help habitat for humanity, volunteer for the borough and go to lodge.... which is 3x more than anyone else I know of... and I do none of it for recognition or reward. I just hope I motivate people to get off their butts and quit watching TV and do something meaningful with their lives.

Funny at how there are always a million ways to justify doing nothing. And then something happens.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Yes, the current level of training, being almost none, is fine. Gun accidents are already rare, as ok doser showed you. Training wont eliminate accidents, but will take away some people opportunity for self defense, starting with the poor.

And as more and more people start to carry, what then?

 

[GuySmiley]

And as more and more people start to carry, what then?

Then more and more people will be carrying. Criminals will give 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th thoughts about robbing, raping, and pillaging.

EDIT: Why do you think more and more people will carry anyway? We aren't talking about making it easier to carry guns, your OP is about making it harder.

 

[HisServant]

Funny at how there are always a million ways to justify doing nothing. And then something happens.

In this case, there is NOTHING to be done... except pass a constitutional amendment.

The only thing that CAN be done is address the mental health issues that are going unrecognized for multiple reasons and get them dealt with.

 

[Granite]

Then more and more people will be carrying. Criminals will give 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th thoughts about robbing, raping, and pillaging.

Because with 300 million guns out there already that's just worked like a charm.

The death cult of Gulture.

 

[HisServant]

Funny at how there are always a million ways to justify doing nothing. And then something happens.

And you still didn't answer my question.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING to deal with this and help your community?

Nothing, I bet.

 

[Ktoyou]

:think: Yeah, Didn't most of Blair's innovation revolve around the response to active shooters though (which admittedly had to change after the fiasco which was Columbine)...I could be wrong I didn't read his book (Did he have more than one?). I have to admit that I haven't paid much attention to him because of this.

I'm a big Jim Cirrillo fan though...The stuff I learned from his program back in the late 80's is still the basis for my drills.

Tom,
I would say most of Blair's work leans towards the academic. although I am not positive? He teaches out of San Marcos Texas.

Jim Cirrillo, was a veteran police officer who, as you know, wrote books on tactical firearms use; however I never met him.

I do believe he would have added value to the tactical team in Texas. There were officers like him who initiated the Texas program is Texas, along with am FBI profiler, as well, a few forensic experts.

 

[GuySmiley]

Guns level the playing field for the weaker people among us. We don't have a right to an accident free life, but we do have a right to self defense. We should strive to minimize accidents for sure, but not at the expense of self defense.

I remember someone on TOL one time quoting Ben Franklin about liberty and safety and all that a while back. I think it was Granite.

 

[TomO]

Tom,
I would say most of Blair's work leans towards the academic. although I am not positive? He teaches out of San Marcos Texas.

I know I've heard the name before and some of what he has been up to but I have to admit that I really don't know much. I should look into it. lain:

Jim Cirrillo, was a veteran police officer who, as you know, wrote books on tactical firearms use; however I never met him.

I did...If you count about 15 seconds and a handshake a "meeting".

I do believe he would have added value to the tactical team in Texas. There were officers like him who initiated the Texas program is Texas, along with am FBI profiler, as well, a few forensic experts.

For street level tactics I don't think there has been anyone who was more gifted. His program would be considered a bit dated by today's standards, but then...So am I. :chuckle:

 

[Granite]

Guns level the playing field for the weaker people among us. We don't have a right to an accident free life, but we do have a right to self defense. We should strive to minimize accidents for sure, but not at the expense of self defense.

I remember someone on TOL one time quoting Ben Franklin about liberty and safety and all that a while back. I think it was Granite.

Do some of you guys live in a time warp where I'm the same guy who showed up here over a decade ago?

 

[Ktoyou]

Which brings me back to the key point - how much training should a person who pulls a firearm in public have? Are we comfortable wit the level of training and qualification currently in place, which is about none? In my mind, if somebody pulls a gun I think it should be incumbent upon them, regardless of cost, to be qualified and mentally stable enough to know exactly what they are doing.

I agree, the training should be more comprehensive, yet when you say, 'regardless of cost; then it will not not happen. Handgun safety should be the first concern, and is easiest to teach, since it is pedagogical.

It would be good to teach firearms use, and this is done well in Texas, where one is required to have so many hours of instruction on the range.

The police program, which is used for those who undertake dangerous duty, or, in some states, wish to make detective, is far more intense, and requires discriminant shooting at mock criminals where innocent persons are present. It also trains actual shooting with special rubber bullets, and many hours of this training, along with extended education, which is mandatory.

As I have stated, not all police officers have this training; DPS does not require it, as well, most patrol officers.

 

[TomO]

The police program, which is used for those who undertake dangerous duty, or, in some states, wish to make detective, is far more intense, and requires discriminant shooting at mock criminals where innocent persons are present. It also trains actual shooting with special rubber bullets, and many hours of this training, along with extended education, which is mandatory.

This is the gold standard in training now...There is a range in Central Florida which has personal courses for civilians. Haven't tried it yet but I plan to make it up there eventually. :juggle:


Simunition

 

[CabinetMaker]

And you still didn't answer my question.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING to deal with this and help your community?

Nothing, I bet.

I am not carrying any guns in public. I have several and Colorado is an open carry state so I am actually practicing what I preach. I do not have the training so I am not carrying.

So why do I even have guns? Well, lets just say I have an abnormal hatred of balloons.

 

[PureX]

The current crop of politicians are the cause of all those deaths.. imnsho.

Why do you blame the politicians and not the corporations that pay them to legislate as the do? Why do you blame the politicians but not the gun manufacturers, or the military ordinance manufacturers, or the military equipment manufacturers? After all, nearly every law proposed and passed by the congress these days is has been written by the lobbyists who pay the legislators to get them passed, and who are in turn paid by these large, wealthy weapons manufacturers. We go to war, now, because it's good for the profit margins of these corporate conglomerates, and they control our government from top to bottom. So why do you keep ignoring the whole corrupt system and blame everything on the politicians? And why do you keep electing and re-electing them when you know they're crooked?

And in the case of domestic gun deaths, the gun manufacturers pay for the NRA and the gun lobbyists to bribe and pressure the politicians to make sure no effective gun regulations get passed into law. Then they blame the ineffective laws that they are responsible for for their ineffectiveness, and use this as an excuse to do nothing more. So why is that all the politician's fault? Why isn't it partly your own fault for blindly supporting the gun manufacturers lust for profits, and the NRA's constant lies and misinformation, at the expense of american lives?

 

[chair]

We have been suffering from a lot of terror incidents in Israel lately. Knife stabbings, rock throwing. In several cases the terrorist was stopped by someone with a gun. This is despite the fact that it is difficult to get a gun license here. In some cases it was someone in the armed services who did the work. (about an hour ago an angry crowd subdued the attacker).

The point is- qualified, trained people carrying weapons, in a system with strict gun controls, do sometimes improve overall security.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Then more and more people will be carrying. Criminals will give 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th thoughts about robbing, raping, and pillaging.

Maybe. Maybe it will just lead to more shoot outs.

EDIT: Why do you think more and more people will carry anyway? We aren't talking about making it easier to carry guns, your OP is about making it harder.

Because the media is hyping the living hell out of this issue. Police shootings, deaths in police custody, school shootings, Navy Yard shootings, work shootings, domestic shootings and the list goes on. It serves to make people scared and they start to think that they everybody, EVERYBODY, is out to get them and they need a gun. SO they buy one. And have no idea what to do with it now that they have it.

How people think guns work

Picking up a gun and using it is not that simple a thing to do.

 

[Granite]

I am not carrying any guns in public. I have several and Colorado is an open carry state so I am actually practicing what I preach. I do not have the training so I am not carrying.

So why do I even have guns? Well, lets just say I have an abnormal hatred of balloons.

Same here. When my concealed carry expired this spring I never once considered renewing it.

 

[Ktoyou]

This is the gold standard in training now...There is a range in Central Florida which has personal courses for civilians. Haven't tried it yet but I plan to make it up there eventually. :juggle:


Simunition

Tom,
I am going to try treatment again, have already received the new medications. If they work this time, and I get to feeling better, I would like to join you, say next summer, or fall? I live close to Florida.

I would like to see how well I do alongside those half my age, it would be a hoot!:chuckle:

 

[CabinetMaker]

In this case, there is NOTHING to be done... except pass a constitutional amendment.

The only thing that CAN be done is address the mental health issues that are going unrecognized for multiple reasons and get them dealt with.

Or, as the amendment actually suggests, local governments could actually regulate.