ECT Suggestion to Knight
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
There you go again. When you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger!
Rubbish.
You already know I and others find you consistently incompetent at your task.
But you can't even get that straight.
:chuckle:
Rom. 5: 6-8.
Yes. He is/was God, in the flesh, when He was born, prior to even keeping the law.
He was/is righteous, apart from any law keeping, keeping the law, not to become righteous, but to be qualified to be the satisfactory sacrifice, the propitiation, the "lamb without blemish/spot," only as evidence to man, just as the lamb was examined for 3 years.
Romans 3 KJV
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Luke 2:7 KJV And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
He was righteous here, as a babe, before fulfilling the entire law.
You: No, he was not.
Luke 2 KJV
42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
He was righteous here, at age 12, before fulfilling the entire law.
You: No, he was not.
Contrasts.
Keeping drinking the milk, kid....meat is too much for you to bear.
Do you deny that the Lord Jesus Christ, after He was born, was righteous, perfect?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Many.....many. Looks like you're the one not taking the Scripture seriously. :chuckle:
glorydaz
Well-known member
In His humanity....yes.
glorydaz
Well-known member
All....all.... :chew:
glorydaz
Well-known member
All men. By the time a child is able to choose evil over good, he is considered to be a young man. Do you ever read Scripture without your preconceived notions? "evil from his youth" actually means something. David was a youth, as well when he first came on the scene.
Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
1 Samuel 17:33 And Saul said to David, Thou art not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him: for thou art but a youth, and he a man of war from his youth.
1 Samuel 17:33 And Saul said to David, Thou art not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him: for thou art but a youth, and he a man of war from his youth.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus was born under the law and as a Jewish Man He was required to keep the law. And Paul does indeed speak of a righteousness which is according to law keeping (Phil.3:9). So the following cannot apply to Him as a Man because His righteousness as a Man cannot be separated from the law:
"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested..." (Ro.3:21).
The Lord's righteousness as a Man is according to the law.
Paul is simply saying that the Lord Jesus is righteous in justifying the believer by faith. Even though he does justify in that manner He remains just.
This verse is in regard to the way that a believer is justified, "justified by faith" as well as "justified by grace" along with "justified by blood." The "righteousness" spoken of in this verse cannot be separated from righteousness under the law because He lived under the law.
Here Paul is saying that the Lord Jesus is righteous in regard to His taking away the sins of those who lived in past times. Nothing more.
No, I do not deny that.
The more important question concerns the so-called imputation of Adam's sin and guilt to all of his descendants. You said nothing about my comments about these verses:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son" (Ezek.18:20).
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deut.24:16).
"But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin" (2 Chron.25:4).
According to the theory of Original Sin the children of Adam did bear his sin. According to that theory both Adam's sin and death in sin is imputed to all of his descendants.
How can you reconcile what is said in those verses with the teaching that both Adam's sin and death in sin is imputed to all of his descendants?
I'm still waiting for that SINGLE VERSE that EXPLICITLY says, "In order to be united with Adam you have to sin."
No, he is righteous, apart from the law, due to Him being God.
You lied.
You lied. You argue:
Yes, you do-you assert that He became righteous "by His keeping the law perfectly."
He had not kept any of the law, after his birth.
You lied:
Derf
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Another meaning of that word is "yea, moreover" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon):
"For until law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Yea, moreover, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come" (Ro.5:13-14).
You said that between Adam and Moses there was no law but you forget about the "law" written on the heart of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:15). That was the only law in effect between Adam and Moses. And those between Adam and Moses were indeed being punished for sins against their conscience.
Give Jerry some time.
After all "one will search the Scripture in vain" for any of Jerry's oddball notions.
His layout of those passages in Romans 3 just now is absolutely terrible.
Their entire focus / assertion is the issue of God imputing His Son's righteousness unto all who have ever believed God - past - present - and future.
At the same time, that and how it was / is accomplished...was a now time revelation...in Paul's day...through Paul's preaching of it.
True, God is righteous in having done that.
But He was righteous before that, and His righteousness is not so much the focus, rather, Christ's righteousness is.
That is EVER the Father's delight - in - His - Son's - righteousness.
What an amazing love.
And what a side benefit to us.
All because Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each...our...stead.
Amazing Grace...indeed!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
But if a righteousness of the Lord Jesus is imputed to people it would be His righteousness as a Man and not as God.
Nope.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom. 5: 6-8.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That hit the nail on the head!
That word is used twice in the following verse and this verse alone destroys the myth of Original Sin:
"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Ro.5:15).
The word "many" cannot mean "all." in this verse because the second time it is used it is impossible that the reference is to "all":
"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Ro.5:15).
It is a fact that the second time the word "many" is used it cannot possibly be referring to "all" because the gift by grace has not abounded unto "all." Only those with faith receive the gift and not all people have faith.
According to the theory of Original Sin "all" and not just "many" are dead because of Adam's sin.
Actually, only those who sin are dead spiritually and infants and little children do not sin.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, "in Him," in the body of Christ. But that is not the same as having His righteousness imputed to believers.
glorydaz
Well-known member
What an idiot you are. You're preaching the letter of the law just like the pharisees did. :down:
You will not find one instance in the Bible of a baby or a child being accused of sin.