So what is the problem

[glorydaz]

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father,

Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


Did you read those?

One God and He is the Father.

Since Jesus is God, then he is also the Father, because there is only one and He is the Father.

Scripture doesn't say that....you do.

You won't find a verse anywhere that says Jesus is the Father or the Son is the Father. If God meant that Jesus is the Father, He would have told us. If God meant that the Son is the Father, He would have told us that.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.​

 

[patrick jane]

Your talk is insulting and cheap. Prove it that what I said is false. Prove it with the scriptures you claim you know. I already know you are full of falseness because you came off saying what you did.

GT's gettin' bold

 

[God's Truth]

Scripture doesn't say that....you do.

You won't find a verse anywhere that says Jesus is the Father or the Son is the Father. If God meant that Jesus is the Father, He would have told us. If God meant that the Son is the Father, He would have told us that.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.​

The scriptures say Jesus is the Spirit.

The scriptures say the Father is Spirit, and that there is only one Spirit.

Scriptures say there is one God and that Jesus is God.

Scriptures say Jesus will be called Father.

Jesus says the overcomers will be his children.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

He didn't have to come as God-man.

Sure He did. No mere "more man than God", could have propitiated the wrath of God for the sin of those whom He specifically came to redeem.

Some will ask:
"If our sins are punished by eternal separation from God, why did Jesus only have to suffer momentary separation?"

That's a good question, and I think there's a pretty clear answer.

In fact, other questions would be, How can one man suffer when millions should've suffered? Same kind of issue. How does one suffering become the suffering of millions? The math doesn't work! How does suffering for threehours on a cross correspond to delivering people from eternity in hell? All those kinds of questions apply here.

The answer is that the degree of suffering, indignity, reproach, degradation, and fall that Jesus endured is not simply determined temporally. And it's not simply determined by the exquisiteness of the pain of a nail cutting through a nerve in your wrist.

It's determined by the difference between the glory that Our Lord had with the Father in heaven and the ignominy that He suffered, naked and hanging as the Son of God on the cross. It's that distance that is the magnitude that provides the scope needed in His suffering to cover an eternity in hell and to cover the sins of millions of people.

The way to think about it is that we commit a greater indignity against God, not just in accord with how many sins we commit or how bad they are, but in accord with how great God is. Therefore our sins are infinitely great because they're against an infinite person and deserve an infinite punishment.

God the Son, being an infinite Person, became so low in His incarnation that that drop in suffering, that drop in indignity was such a huge drop—it was an infinite drop—that it suffices to cover the sins of millions and to cover the entire length of eternity that we deserve to be in hell.

The gift is valued according to the altar on which it is presented. Christ offered Himself through the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14), that is to say, He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature. He was able to suffer infinite punishment and satisfy divine justice because of the dignity of His person. His divine nature being eternal, His offering possesses an eternal quality. Hence, although Christ did not sacrifice Himself eternally, He nevertheless offered an eternal sacrifice to satisfy divine justice.

No one, but He who is fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second subsistence (Person) of the Trinity assumed (took upon Himself) a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused could make the sacrifice Our Lord made for those He came to redeem (John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9; John 17:22; John 18:9)

AMR

 

[glorydaz]

The scriptures say Jesus is the Spirit.

No, the verse you're referring to says the Lord is that Spirit. Since you insist on taking it out of context, you are quick to assume you know what it's saying. You don't.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.​

The scriptures say the Father is Spirit, and that there is only one Spirit.

The scripture actually says God is a Spirit.

John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Scriptures say there is one God and that Jesus is God.

Yes, they do say there is ONE GOD, and they say the Word was God and the Word became flesh.

Scriptures say Jesus will be called Father.

I believe that is referring to the Jews when He comes back to rule on earth. (future)

Jeremiah 31:9
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.​

Jesus says the overcomers will be his children.

Again, I think you're forcing the issue without any scriptural support.

You should just stop making pronouncements and quote scripture. Then speak about each verse rather than assume the book says what you think it says.

 

[glorydaz]

Sure He did. No mere "more man than God", could have propitiated the wrath of God for the sin of those whom He specifically came to redeem.




....the sacrifice Our Lord made for those He came to redeem (John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9; John 17:22; John 18:9)

AMR

But the sacrifice covered more than just the lost sheep of Israel, which is who our Lord was speaking of in those verses...those to whom He was sent. Specifically the Apostles and those Jews who believed He was the Messiah/Good Shepard. IMHO

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

After He had risen, His sacrifice covered all who believe through the Gospel of Grace.

 

[God's Truth]

No, the verse you're referring to says the Lord is that Spirit. Since you insist on taking it out of context, you are quick to assume you know what it's saying. You don't.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.​

Believe what is written. That scripture plainly says the Lord is the Spirit. There are other scriptures that say it too.

Jesus is the Spirit, glory.

1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

Did you read that? It says Jesus is a life-giving Spirit.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

How about that scripture?
Jesus says the Spirit gives life. He is that life-giving Spirit. He is the Spirit and spoke words that are full of the Spirit.

Isn't it wonderful? There is more.

God says that people will call Jesus God, Father, and the Holy Spirit, and that is what I call him.

Isaiah 9:6 HCSB For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

The scriptures say Jesus makes intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

The scriptures say the Spirit intercedes for us.

Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Does that prove to you that Jesus is the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

That scripture shows us that Jesus is that one Spirit in whom we have access to the Father.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Jesus is the Spirit. Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

The scripture actually says God is a Spirit.
John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

That God that Spirit is the Father.

John 4:23 But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, they do say there is ONE GOD, and they say the Word was God and the Word became flesh.

There is one God not three different Gods making one.

God has come in three different ways. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe that is referring to the Jews when He comes back to rule on earth. (future)
Jeremiah 31:9
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

This scripture is about all things being CREATED by Jesus:

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.


Now read what is said about the Creator:

Malachi 2:10
Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful


Jesus is that one God and Father.

Try to explain that?


Scriptures that say Jesus is God the Father:

See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.

1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.


The ROCK that FATHERED them was Christ.

Jesus says those who overcome he will be their GOD and they will be his CHILDREN.

See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.


If we are Jesus' children, then he is our Father.


John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Did you read that scripture? Who but a Father will not leave children as orphans?


Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.

See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.


That means when we see Jesus, we can say, "I see the Father."

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. So that is what I call Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[glorydaz]

Believe what is written. That scripture plainly says the Lord is the Spirit. There are other scriptures that say it too.

Jesus is the Spirit, glory.

1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

Did you read that? It says Jesus is a life-giving Spirit.

A Spirit - God is a Spirit

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

How about that scripture?
Jesus says the Spirit gives life. He is that life-giving Spirit. He is the Spirit and spoke words that are full of the Spirit.

Isn't it wonderful? There is more.

God says that people will call Jesus God, Father, and the Holy Spirit, and that is what I call him.

Isaiah 9:6 HCSB For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.



The scriptures say Jesus makes intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

The scriptures say the Spirit intercedes for us.

Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Does that prove to you that Jesus is the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

That scripture shows us that Jesus is that one Spirit in whom we have access to the Father.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Jesus is the Spirit. Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

I can see there is no hope of your understanding the difference between God being A SPIRIT, and the person of the Holy Spirit. :sigh:


But, I must say this. There is ONE God. God is a Spirit, so you will see verses that speak of that. However, God is triune. The person of the Holy Spirit is not the Son or the Father....but distinct. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived. He is the earnest of our inheritance. The Holy Spirit baptizes believers into the body of Christ. The Holy Spirit gives gifts and produces fruit in the believer. You must see there are distinctions...noticeable ones. It is the Holy Spirit that empowers man to acknowledge Jesus is LORD.

The Holy Spirit....HE is God. Don't dismiss the 3rd person of our Triune God for He is equal with the Father and Son. Distinct but equal.

1 Cor. 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.​

 

[God's Truth]

A Spirit - God is a Spirit

God is a Spirit, the one and only Divine Spirit.

The Bible says plainly that there is one Spirit.

I already gave those scriptures.

I can see there is no hope of your understanding the difference between God being A SPIRIT, and the person of the Holy Spirit. :sigh:

There aren't two Spirits. Saying there is two and three Spirits is against the Bible which says there is one.

But, I must say this. There is ONE God. God is a Spirit, so you will see verses that speak of that. However, God is triune. The person of the Holy Spirit is not the Son or the Father....but distinct. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived. He is the earnest of our inheritance. The Holy Spirit baptizes believers into the body of Christ. The Holy Spirit gives gifts and produces fruit in the believer. You must see there are distinctions...noticeable ones. It is the Holy Spirit that empowers man to acknowledge Jesus is LORD.

The Holy Spirit....HE is God. Don't dismiss the 3rd person of our Triune God for He is equal with the Father and Son. Distinct but equal.

1 Cor. 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.​

The three are one and the same Spirit. I proved it with scripture.

 

[glorydaz]

There is one God not three different Gods making one.

God has come in three different ways. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I didn't say there were three Gods, nor did I say there were "different" Gods.

No one has said that.



Your saying God has come in "three different ways" means what?

He has revealed Himself in "three different ways"?

As Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, perhaps?

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't say there were three Gods, nor did I say there were "different" Gods.

You speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three different.

No one has said that.

You do say it. If you did not, then why did you say the Father was a Spirit as opposed to the Spirit?

Your saying God has come in "three different ways" means what?

He has revealed Himself in "three different ways"?

As Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, perhaps?

That is right. God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[glorydaz]

God is a Spirit, the one and only Divine Spirit.

The Bible says plainly that there is one Spirit.

I already gave those scriptures.


There aren't two Spirits. Saying there is two and three Spirits is against the Bible which says there is one.



The three are one and the same Spirit. I proved it with scripture.

:doh:

God is A Spirit. The angels are spirits. There are evil spirits. We wage a spiritual warfare against them. God is the Father of Spirits. AND there are seven Spirits of God here. What of those. That's more than one.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

Perhaps you took that verse about ONE SPIRIT out of context too. :think:

LOOK HERE. Paul is speaking of the body of Christ.

We see the HOLY SPIRIT (one Spirit), Jesus Christ (One Lord), and One Father God. Jesus isn't the Spirit in that verse, He is the LORD.

Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

 

[glorydaz]

You speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three different.



You do say it. If you did not, then why did you say the Father was a Spirit as opposed to the Spirit?



That is right. God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I didn't say the Father was a Spirit. I quoted a verse that said GOD IS A SPIRIT. He is invisible....an invisible Spirit....like the angels and the demons.

 

[God's Truth]

:doh:

God is A Spirit. The angels are spirits. There are evil spirits. We wage a spiritual warfare against them. God is the Father of Spirits. AND there are seven Spirits of God here. What of those. That's more than one.

I said there is only one 'divine' Spirit.

How would you go to speaking of angels and demons?

We are talking about God.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

Perhaps you took that verse about ONE SPIRIT out of context too. :think:

I have no idea why you are going off into now saying God is ten.

I am talking about the three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

LOOK HERE. Paul is speaking of the body of Christ.

We see the HOLY SPIRIT (one Spirit), Jesus Christ (One Lord), and One Father God. Jesus isn't the Spirit in that verse, He is the LORD.

Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

There is one Spirit.

The Father is Spirit. Jesus is Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is Spirit.

Since there are three, the three must be one and the same Spirit.

Now how do you get that the Father is not Spirit and that the Holy Spirit is separate from Him?

How do you get that Jesus is not Spirit and the Holy Spirit is separate from him?

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't say the Father was a Spirit. I quoted a verse that said GOD IS A SPIRIT. He is invisible....an invisible Spirit....like the angels and the demons.

...so that is not God the Father? Then what do you think the Father is??? You said you didn't say the Father was a Spirit! But then you say you said God is Spirit.

The Father IS God and He IS the Spirit.

The Father is Spirit, He is invisible---just as spirits are. Jesus' Spirit within Jesus is the Spirit of God the Father. There is only one Spirit.

If you want to lead someone to what you say is the truth, then tell me plainly what the Father is.

I can tell you plainly what He is.

 

[God's Truth]

LOOK HERE. Paul is speaking of the body of Christ.

We see the HOLY SPIRIT (one Spirit), Jesus Christ (One Lord), and One Father God. Jesus isn't the Spirit in that verse, He is the LORD.

That one Spirit, the Holy Spirit, is the Lord.

I gave MANY scriptures explaining that the Lord is the Spirit---that Jesus the Lord is the Spirit.

Those scriptures plainly say that Jesus is a LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT.

Those scriptures plainly say that the Lord is the Spirit

 

[Cross Reference]

Lower than the angels at his human birth, but he was later born of the Spirit.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit." (John 3:6)

Jesus had no need to be born of the Spirit as we do by a second birth because He had been already conceived by it.. Now do you understand?