Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

[Lon]

Do you also worship a book?

You've been corrected. You go ahead with the accusation, you stick to something your mind latches onto and DON'T CARE what was actually said by me OR the Bible. Go ahead, keep it up. You are ruining your own reputation in ability to read or understand the Bible, Dr. Wallace, me, or anybody else for that matter. Have at it. You'll ruin yourself for it. If you can't be honest, deal in dishonesty? :think:

See!? You IMMEDIATELY went to quote me "and I do!" in parenthesis.

lain: Worship:
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power 2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

• a celebrity worshipped by her fans

Yes, I do in the sense that I 'honor and revere' the bible as coming from God as well as regard with respect, and honor. No, I don't hold them over God but again 'as coming from Him' as I've already told you. What do you do? Ignore that and go for vitriol instead of what is/isn't true. You DON'T CARE as long as you win. You aren't an honest man.

And I think it is obvious John W. doesn’t love me, as I love him and want him to do better.

John w. still speaks as a child, with tirades against those trying to speak the truth.

:think:

KJVOnlyism ...they are difficult to communicate with.

...recognize the delusion and do our best to help with their special needs.

All this 'love' in your mind? :think:

 

[2003cobra]

No, if he did not speak in English, Latin, German....you would "argue" that most of the world, who do not speak/understand whatever language He spoke, does not access to the scriptures.

Prove that He spoke Hebrew, or Aramaic, or Greek.

Chapter, verse, where the LORD God promised to preserve His word in any language.

Where can we get a copy of the preserved, true, sure, sound, perfect, pure scriptures?

Define bible believer.


Chapter, verse, where scripture says that a translation cannot be "is given by inspiration."

You are a bible correcting devil child, not a bible believer. My evidence? You.

Prove that Jesus spoke Aramaic?

Even the KJV proves that, quoting Him several times in Aramaic.

Matthew 27 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

There is Jesus speaking Aramaic.

I could give more examples.

You know He spoke Aramaic, don’t you?

 

[2003cobra]

You've been corrected. You go ahead with the accusation, you stick to something your mind latches onto and DON'T CARE what was actually said by me OR the Bible. Go ahead, keep it up. You are ruining your own reputation in ability to read or understand the Bible, Dr. Wallace, me, or anybody else for that matter. Have at it. You'll ruin yourself for it. If you can't be honest, deal in dishonesty? :think:

See!? You IMMEDIATELY went to quote me "and I do!" in parenthesis.

lain: Worship:
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power 2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

• a celebrity worshipped by her fans

Yes, I do in the sense that I 'honor and revere' the bible as coming from God as well as regard with respect, and honor. No, I don't hold them over God but again 'as coming from Him' as I've already told you. What do you do? Ignore that and go for vitriol instead of what is/isn't true. You DON'T CARE as long as you win. You aren't an honest man.

:think:

You did say you worship the Bible.

I think you even used an exclamation point!

All this 'love' in your mind? :think:

Yes, it would not be showing love to hide the truth that KJVOnlyism is a delusion.

Lying about something is not loving or appropriate.

 

[daqq]

Prove that Jesus spoke Aramaic?

Even the KJV proves that, quoting Him several times in Aramaic.

Matthew 27 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

There is Jesus speaking Aramaic.

I could give more examples.

You know He spoke Aramaic, don’t you?

Lol, right back to where we started: it is not, "My God, my God", but, "My El, my El".
Same as Ηλι, (Luke 3:23) . . . :chuckle:

 

[patrick jane]

KJV is the Best !!!

 

[2003cobra]

Not even at that. Nobody speaks Koine Greek that I'm aware of. Many can read it out loud, but speaking? :nono: Not even my Greek professors conversed to one another in it.

Koine is about as different to modern Greek as Gaelic is to English.
View attachment 26096
▲Gaelic▲

Not only that, it was not understood that Koine Greek was the language of the ancient manuscripts until the 1800s.

That is one reason that it is so irrational to view the 1611 KJV as especially relevant.

 

[2003cobra]

Lol, right back to where we started: it is not, "My God, my God", but, "My El, my El".
Same as Ηλι, (Luke 3:23) . . . :chuckle:

Are you going to deny that Jesus spoke Aramaic too?

Is this also a fact you spiritualize into nonsense?

Mark 5 is another example

KJ21 And He took the damsel by the hand and said unto her, “Talitha cumi,” which is, being interpreted, “Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.”


Jesus spoke Aramaic. Why doesn’t John W realize that? Is it the delusion?

 

[Zeke]

You are the one that believes God made that promise, so it is up to you to prove your belief is justified.


The word mistranslated in that KJV verse as "world" should have been correctly translated as "land", meaning the land of Israel.
The gospel was preached in all the land of Israel before the end came with the destruction of the Temple as prophesied in Matthew 24:2.


You seem to like making up lies about other people instead of debating the source of your mistaken doctrinal beliefs.

The land/Israel being a pictorial/portrayal in the mystery of the spiritual kingdom within Luke 17:20-21 where the characters/symbols can't enter Galatians 3:28, they have to stay outside in the kingdom of men who had to be ask if they had any clues to 1Cor 3:16 the temple of men portrayed in Jerusalem that is in bondage is converted by Jesus spiritually as the body temple made without hands John 2:21, Act 17:24 rejects it had or will ever have anything to do with man made temples, even the gospel of 1Cor 15:1-4 crowed about from judging the letter by and from appearance is the base level would naturally appeal to like minded, who like those ask by Paul don't you know the spirit of God is in you.John 1:9 a symptom of being taught that looking outside ones own Kingdom for its King is Kosher, that keeps men in bondage to its base understanding, ignorant of Gods power in them to make rocks praise him if they won't, instead their protecting dead letters that blinds them to its higher levels of understanding, but in their condition of recovering sinners they re-lie on flesh and blood sacrifice that created the mentality they need to die daily to, it still survives, and is alive and well in all myriads of forms right here in river city.

 

[daqq]

Are you going to deny that Jesus spoke Aramaic too?

Is this also a fact you spiritualize into nonsense?

Again you missed the entire point. There are some places, and especially in quotes from the Tanach, where Theos does mean El and not always Elohim, and should be rendered in those various ways whenever possible so that the texts may be better understood, (imo even Emmanuel in Mat 1:23 should be rendered, "El-is-with-us", in the explanation therein, (which contains Theos, "μεθ ημων ο θεος")). Moreover Yah is also sometimes rendered in forms of Theos and other times as Kurios. You again missed the logos-reasoning in what I said.

 

[Lon]

You did say you worship the Bible.

I think you even used an exclamation point!

Then by ALL MEANS, write what you think instead of what is said :noway:

Are you dishonest, illiterate, or both? :think:

Yes, it would not be showing love to hide the truth that KJVOnlyism is a delusion.

Lying about something is not loving or appropriate.

Dishonest. You weren't being 'loving.' You are here for your own ego. You CANNOT listen to another or his/her theology. You are as despicable as your inability to read OR represent another clearly. AGAIN, you are NOT here for that. I wish that you were.

Worse? YOU would rather have enemies than friends over these matters and it shows. You attack and debate poorly, without regard for another, and without regard for truth EXCEPT what you THINK it is and are committed to. What you LOVE is your theories and your own lacking prowess which you esteem way and above what it actually is. You fail to deliver and are a poor communicator and likely a poor person for all this too. You came on TOL concerned MOST about YOUR agenda. Not making friends or actually caring about anybody. As I've said, I've prayed over your arrogance and ignorance. It isn't pleasing to God. He is capable of doing what He must, but YOU my friend, are only here to win a debate and your OWN way. lain: And it IS plain. I don't have to be a mindreader, it is what this thread is producing by your own hand. YOU have done this. It is your work and the fruit of your labors. Worse? It is getting worse, not better. Sad days, that.

 

[Lon]

That is one reason that it is so irrational to view the 1611 KJV as especially relevant.

No, but you won't listen to anything not your opinion The 1611 is important for a number of reasons. I'm not KJVonly in that I would make everyone read only it. That said, I read it most specifically because it is a word-for-word rather than idea for idea endeavor. It also has the greater wealth of academic work having been around since 1611 than any other translation. You cannot, for instance, use a concordance as well for the NIV as you can for the KJV specifically because of the different ways both are translated. Most commentaries and theology works reference the KJV for those 400 years as well.

 

[Lon]

Jesus spoke Aramaic. Why doesn’t John W realize that? Is it the delusion?

No, he is saying without the Bible, that you attack, you couldn't possibly prove 'anything.'

As I've said and you'll not accept coming from me: You don't read to understand AND you marginalize your opponent with 'special needs' and 'delusion.' Sorry, Cobra, you are lying to yourself. It isn't love, not even tough love. You haven't listened and it shows. There is no love without listening. There is just a wrecking ball you swing on an inerrant forum and a devil-may-care cavalier attitude toward those 'who you seek to wreck.' This isn't your first forum. You SHOULD have learned from your mistakes the first time so this didn't happen AGAIN :doh:


People just aren't going to like you. I learned in my pastoral class a long time ago: People don't care what you know, until they know you care. God spent a great deal of time conveying His love culminating in the life and death of His Son on earth and heaven, I think specifically because people don't care what you know, until they know you care. Another way the paradigm is given: Truth and relationship. Truth without relationship is an uncaring unthinking sledge hammer. Relationship without truth is a veneer of acquaintance.

Jesus said: The time is coming and is now here when TRUE worshippers will worship in Spirit (love) and Truth (what is right). Only with both can we be of any service to one another or God, thus the Lord Jesus Christ summed it up that all of everything given was based on two commands: To love God and Love one another.

Nobody that reads 'all the law and the prophets lay on these two commands' and think 'errant.' THAT isn't going to happen. They are going to work, rather, on honing their own love for the Savior and His people.

Again, no idea if I've reached you. You haven't heard a word I've said in thread but what you've latched onto to 'dig' into me back. That isn't love either.

 

[2003cobra]

Then by ALL MEANS, write what you think instead of what is said :noway:

Are you dishonest, illiterate, or both? :think:

I will just quote you:
You both believe I worship a book (and I do, it is from Him!).

 

[daqq]

Is this also a fact you spiritualize into nonsense?

Moreover "spiritualize" is exactly what your PDF author did with the Zec 9:9 passage in the link which you posted to make your point. Only he does not call himself a spiritualizer but rather claims to be properly interpreting Hebrew "poetry". Bad news for you: he is doing the same thing but under a different and more palatable labeling, that is, "interpreting poetry" instead of "spiritualizing", (lol). And that is because he and you cannot take what is written in Zec 9:9 as absolutely literal because there are two witnesses that testify against you: the Septuagint reading and the Matthew 21 account. Therefore you and he spiritualize and marginalize the words of the Prophet so that you may accuse Matthew while ignoring the witness in the Septuagint reading. You cannot have it both ways, and now that I also understand what is going on therein much better, I would not be willing to give you an inch in the Zechariah reading either because you and yours are subverting it by watering it down so as to take away from what it says.

 

[2003cobra]

Again you missed the entire point. There are some places, and especially in quotes from the Tanach, where Theos does mean El and not always Elohim, and should be rendered in those various ways whenever possible so that the texts may be better understood, (imo even Emmanuel in Mat 1:23 should be rendered, "El-is-with-us", in the explanation therein, (which contains Theos, "μεθ ημων ο θεος")). Moreover Yah is also sometimes rendered in forms of Theos and other times as Kurios. You again missed the logos-reasoning in what I said.

On the contrary, you missed the topic.

The discussion was that Jesus spoke Aramaic. You are aware of that, aren’t you?

 

[2003cobra]

No, but you won't listen to anything not your opinion The 1611 is important for a number of reasons. I'm not KJVonly in that I would make everyone read only it. That said, I read it most specifically because it is a word-for-word rather than idea for idea endeavor. It also has the greater wealth of academic work having been around since 1611 than any other translation. You cannot, for instance, use a concordance as well for the NIV as you can for the KJV specifically because of the different ways both are translated. Most commentaries and theology works reference the KJV for those 400 years as well.

Those are valid points.

And some of that academic work identifies places in which the manuscripts upon which the KJV is based are now known to have been inferior, such as the book/tree error in the last chapter of Revelation.

Why are you silent on the error that the KJV is the one true Bible?

Why are you silent on the fact that the 1611 KJV had more than 66 books?

 

[daqq]

On the contrary, you missed the topic.

The discussion was that Jesus spoke Aramaic. You are aware of that, aren’t you?

Again, you entirely missed what was said in my first response to that post:
"Eli, Eli", does not necessarily mean, "My God, my God", but rather surely, "My El, my El".

If you cannot see these little technicalities then why should you be doing what you are doing?

 

[2003cobra]

No, he is saying without the Bible, that you attack, you couldn't possibly prove 'anything.'

As I've said and you'll not accept coming from me: You don't read to understand AND you marginalize your opponent with 'special needs' and 'delusion.' Sorry, Cobra, you are lying to yourself. It isn't love, not even tough love. You haven't listened and it shows. There is no love without listening. There is just a wrecking ball you swing on an inerrant forum and a devil-may-care cavalier attitude toward those 'who you seek to wreck.' This isn't your first forum. You SHOULD have learned from your mistakes the first time so this didn't happen AGAIN :doh:


People just aren't going to like you. I learned in my pastoral class a long time ago: People don't care what you know, until they know you care. God spent a great deal of time conveying His love culminating in the life and death of His Son on earth and heaven, I think specifically because people don't care what you know, until they know you care. Another way the paradigm is given: Truth and relationship. Truth without relationship is an uncaring unthinking sledge hammer. Relationship without truth is a veneer of acquaintance.

Jesus said: The time is coming and is now here when TRUE worshippers will worship in Spirit (love) and Truth (what is right). Only with both can we be of any service to one another or God, thus the Lord Jesus Christ summed it up that all of everything given was based on two commands: To love God and Love one another.

Nobody that reads 'all the law and the prophets lay on these two commands' and think 'errant.' THAT isn't going to happen. They are going to work, rather, on honing their own love for the Savior and His people.

Again, no idea if I've reached you. You haven't heard a word I've said in thread but what you've latched onto to 'dig' into me back. That isn't love either.

I have seen the KJV only error for years. People who otherwise seem intelligent cannot see the obvious flaws in the KJV only view.

I believe it is a delusion and the adherents do have special needs.

How else can such a preposterous position be embraced?

I know you see the errors but can’t admit them — apparently too much invested and too dependent on the support systems.

Yes, we should love one another. Lying to one another is not love. Winking at errors is not love.

 

[2003cobra]

Again, you entirely missed what was said in my first response to that post:
"Eli, Eli", does not necessarily mean, "My God, my God", but rather surely, "My El, my El".

If you cannot see these little technicalities then why should you be doing what you are doing?

Are you saying Jesus was not speaking Aramaic?

That is the topic.

 

[patrick jane]

Are you saying Jesus was not speaking Aramaic?

That is the topic.

I'm glad you watched that whole video I posted.