glorydaz
Well-known member
Still no coherent comment from you, and no still no idea of what it means to be led by the Spirit.
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Saved by Grace or/and by Works
- Thread starter Wolguar
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Still no coherent comment from you, and no still no idea of what it means to be led by the Spirit.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You're stuck in the second grade where Paul is concerned.
lain:Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah yes, back to man DOING something to earn his salvation.
Back to man receiving glory for his own salvation.
Back to man boasting.
Back to man stealing the glory that belongs to Jesus Christ alone.
I notice you twisted the scripture that speaks of the law of faith. It is NOT a law obeyed with faith or any such nonsense. It is a LAW like unto the Law of gravity. A fact not an act. A fact Paul makes clear in the verse that follows. That a man is justified APART from the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
actually no...the Sabbath commandment makes clear there were strangers within Israel’s gates...Israel not just judah...and time and again it was repeated ONE LAW for native and foreigner...maybe by the time the four gospels and first half of Acts there was a wall but that is what Yahushua reversed to restore the fact that His Father’s house was INDEED a house of prayer FOR ALL NATIONS...is another reasons jews rejected Him
yes His promise that ALL would be blessed from a Seed in judah was fulfilled...all Nations...and NO DISTINCTION is made between goyim and jews as believers are merely IN HIM...HIS people grafted into Him/Israel...goyim are NOT grafted into judah...certainly don’t remain strangers afar off raptured from obligations ALL citizens of Israel are given...adopted INTO the family the rules dispensed to it are now to them...they house is NOT divided...
right so leave it down...don’t rebuild it with a wall seperating kingdom vs. BOC...
as if ONLY Israel sinned...LOL...or needed salvation...or just jews...right just jews received the law to gain the promise...all other nations do what thou whilst...no salvation for you
banquet is laid out...the VIP list rejected the invite...come an eat...and be Israel...His people...His own received Him not
replacing the wall means jews and goyim are seperate and each have their own way in...they have temple...which yours believes will be trigger for 2/3 jews killed the final 1/3 forced conversion...
nope...on earth as it is in heaven...get used to it...He reigns over all... your attempt to rapture yourselves from obligations to keep the law of His kingdom will be noted...
NOT a wall...a distinction...a seperate way...a division of His kingdom
Ruth did NOT bring her old ways into her new family...she did NOT claim those rules were not dispensed to her....
Now part of the family...you wish to rapture...carry yourselves away...from wanting to keep the house rules...as if your Master has no yoke or burden for you...or seperate ones for you...
His House is NOT divided...you are a citizen...now act like it...
Establish that law...Paul wrote...to the Romans
Being led by the Spirit to do what? Live contrary to the Law? Live without Law?
If you are led and follow the Spirit you certainly are not under the law as the Spirit guides you INTO KEEPING IT...
Keep reading that text:
“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
So does the Spirit lead you away from this or into it...
Which other commandments does the Spirit NOT lead you into keeping?
Bet I know which one...I means besides false witnessing...
Being Spirit led is like having the police ride along with you...doubtful you will break the traffic laws...
But who knows...your hatred for His Way might have you rebel against state laws too...
You're stuck in the second grade where Paul is concerned.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
so that faith has them live contrary to law?
You claim you are not under the law because it was not for you...
“31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.“
The law we establish evidences our faith...our belief...your belief is in a jewish false witness that Yahushua changed the customs of Moses delivered...changed them to not apply to the goyim...
You raptured yourself of His house rules...divided the kingdom between those that do and those that do NOT...”cuz they weren’t dispensed to me”
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't need to be told what to do and what not to do. Unlike you, apparently. :chew:
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Putting your ignorance aside, I'll address this in yellow.
YOU SAY, the "law we establish evidences our faith", and that is absolute nonsense. It doesn't make a lick of sense, instead, making a mockery of what Paul is saying. Take yourself out of the equation.
Does faith make void the law or establish the law?
Paul is saying faith is the purpose for the law being given.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
wow the arrogance...even Paul was grateful for the law to show him his coveting...even the Spirit failed to keep him from doing what HE HATED...he was repentant
But I guess when you rationalize you got grace alone and no law to follow you may do what thou whilst...with no law not sure why you even want grace?
Right...in Him you don’t do what you used to did...what you do now is new...His way...not your old ways or the world’s
Right and like all normal good obedient students once they graduate they practice and continue to use and keep what they learned as a student under the schoolmaster...
They don’t rapture themselves of their education and instruction when they take their graduation cap off...
csuguy
Well-known member
Arguing that the scriptures only present a single valid Gospel isn't a platitude. Show me where anyone asserts to have a valid gospel different from what Christ gave to the disciples. No - it was only ever intended that a single gospel go out to ALL nations:
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Do you imagine that the "Gospel of God" (Romans 1:1) is any different than the "Gospel of his Son" (Romans 1:9)? Are these different than the "Gospel of Christ" (1 Cor 9:12)? Of course not. They are all the same Gospel - and it is this same Gospel that both the disciples and Paul received.
Romans 1:9
God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you
God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you
Adding some highlights to the text doesn't make your point. Paul is quite clear that there is only one valid Gospel. He never, anywhere, suggests that there are multiple valid Gospels - or that his Gospel is distinct from Christ's or what was given to the disciples. To the contrary, as noted in Romans 1:9, he claims to preach the Gospel of the Son.
If you think the disciples preached something other than the Gospel of the Son, then you are tasked with showing that theirs isn't the Gospel of Christ - and explaining where they got this other Gospel if not from Christ.
Just because he was addressing a particular audience at the time doesn't do away with what he said. Most scripture was originally directed at someone else. Are you going to argue that since Romans was written to the church in Rome that its wisdom only applies to those in Rome? Silly.
Explain how there isn't a difference in quality if one Gospel requires that you give your life doing God's work, while the other requires absolutely nothing of you? If one set of people must obey the Law, and the other can do any manner of sin under the sun without repentance and be saved - because their actions have no meaning to salvation? Silly.
And, as Paull tells us, we have been grafted onto Israel and thus share in Israel's blessings.
As seen in Acts 10, the disciples - and Peter specifically - realized through revelation independent of Paul that the Gentiles were part of the body.
It is on you to show the equality in Christ is a temporary thing - though it sounds like a pretty sinful stance to take.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Just because Romans was written to the church in Rome, or because Corinthians was written to the Church of Corinth, doesn't invalidate the truths contained within these Epistles nor negate their application to us today. So it is with all scripture. Not to say such truths can't come with conditions - but then you should be able to demonstrate from Paul's own words how a particular truth is explicitly limited to a particular place, time, and/or people - and not merely something that you are reading into the text as with your attempt at dismissing Galatians 1.
csuguy
Well-known member
You neither provided a definition nor scripture. Try again.
Nope. Your ignorance is for you to solve.
csuguy
Well-known member
You're stuck in the second grade where Paul is concerned.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Cherry picking like that will simply produce problems for your theology - you can't dismiss what Paul says in chapter 2 based upon what he says in chapter 9. That is intellectually dishonest.
Case and point: You quote Galatians 5:18 to say that if one is led by the Spirit that you aren't under the Law. Now combine with this passage:
1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
Based upon your cherry-picked understanding of Galatians 5:18, we must conclude that Paul is not led by the Spirit - or at the very least in a deep contradiction with himself.
No - read in context, Galatians 5 is talking about the fulfillment of the Law: love.
Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Galatians 5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Aka - as long as you do what is right and good, as long as your actions are guided by love, then you won't sin or be convicted as law breakers. You needn't worry about the law when your heart is in the right place. Not because there isn't in fact a law present, but because the law won't convict you if your heart is in the right place and act accordingly.
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csuguy
Well-known member
Ha - you have failed to substantiate your view. You know you are in error and cannot address the sin of favoritism inherent in your theology. We can end the conversation here as you wish - but this fact won't change.
csuguy
Well-known member
It isn't "stealing the glory that belongs to Jesus Christ" to do as Jesus Christ instructed. Rather, you make a mockery of Christ when you claim to be followers of Christ and reject his teachings.
Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.
Why do you think Christ gave the Great Commission - telling us to teach people to obey his commandments, if not because we were, in fact, to do just that? No - Jesus was quite explicit the Law isn't going anywhere.
Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Right Divider
Body part
It's YOUR job.... since YOU are making the CLAIM, YOU need to SUPPORT the "one and only one gospel" from scripture (without forcing your OWN meaning ONTO the text).
Also, of course they were to preach the kingdom to everyone. That does NOT make it the gospel of the grace of God.
Gospel as you should well know by now simply means "good news" and there is MUCH good news in the Bible. Much of that GOOD NEWS has similarities to other GOOD NEWS. That Churchianity and you are fixed on the incorrect idea that there needs to be "one and only one gospel" is just plain silly and unsupported by scripture (and your abuse of scripture).
No, that, once AGAIN... is YOU forcing your meaning onto the text. In the popular Galatians passage Paul makes it clear that he is talking to SPECIFIC people about the gospel that he is preaching TO THEM. He repeated says TO YOU right in the text, but you ignore that.
The twelve did NOT preach the "good news" of the cross in Acts 2-4. That is a glaringly huge missing component from the gospel of the KINGDOM that they were preaching.
TOO LONG....
csuguy
Well-known member
First off, I've already provided scripture to the effect that there is only one gospel. Secondly, the scriptures all consistently use the term "gospel" in the same manner - referring to the Gospel of Christ/God/the Son/the Kingdom. No - I've done my part in substantiating my view - it is on you to give even one example where "gospel" is used to refer to anything else.
Paul claimed to preach the Gospel of the Son (Romans 1:9). If this is something different than what the Son, in fact, taught and gave to the Disciples - it is on you to demonstrate that (though it is a ridiculous position to take).
Show ONE reference where the term "gospel" is used to refer to something other than the Gospel of Christ.
No - adding highlights to the text is YOU attempting to force meaning onto a text. Pretty much all scripture was directed at someone else originally - excepting perhaps the Gospels as a general testimony. Romans was written to the Church in Rome, Corinthians was written to the Church in Corinth, etc. Are you going to reject all of the Epistles because they weren't directed at you specifically? Foolish. Just because something was spoken to a particular people doesn't invalidate the truth of those words.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Uh, yes, they did. Try reading those chapters.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.
Acts 2:38-39 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.
Acts 3:21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
Right Divider
Body part
No, you did not. You gave your highly biased view of some scripture.
And all of those things have differences that you completely ignore.
All of that is true... but it still does NOT make the gospel of the kingdom IDENTICAL to the gospel of the grace of God.
The restoration referred to in Acts 3:21 INCLUDES the restoration of the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6).