Saved by Grace or/and by Works

[Aimiel]

Did Jesus directly speak to her about what she should teach? Or was she taught by Paul and/or those whom he taught?

I don't disagree that she was an apostle.

My point is that if there is only one gospel, then there was no need for Paul.

Your understanding doesn't follow Scripture. He speaks, even today. I'm a prophet, called to that office by Him, directly. He still calls apostles, pastors, evangelists and teachers, too!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Your understanding doesn't follow Scripture.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

He speaks, even today. I'm a prophet, called to that office by Him, directly. He still calls apostles, pastors, evangelists and teachers, too!

I think you're confusing the two meanings of the word "apostle."

But that doesn't answer my challenge.

What need was there for Christ to appear directly to Paul to give him special knowledge (the supposed "one gospel") if that special knowledge was already taught to the Twelve? Why add a Thirteenth?

 

[Aimiel]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Denying it doesn't erase it, either... I didn't say it: Scripture does...

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers

Are you going to tell me next that there are no more pastors or teachers?

I think you're confusing the two meanings of the word "apostle."

But that doesn't answer my challenge.

What need was there for Christ to appear directly to Paul to give him special knowledge (the supposed "one gospel") if that special knowledge was already taught to the Twelve? Why add a Thirteenth?

He brought greater understanding to the original twelve apostles and is still bringing understanding today, due to his knowledge and understanding. I believe that he walked closer to The Lord than anyone before or since, save Adam, Noah and Moses.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Denying it doesn't erase it, either... I didn't say it: Scripture does...

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers

Are you going to tell me next that there are no more pastors or teachers?He brought greater understanding to the original twelve apostles and is still bringing understanding today, due to his knowledge and understanding. I believe that he walked closer to The Lord than anyone before or since, save Adam, Noah and Moses.

You're still not answering my question.

What need was there for Christ to appear directly to Paul to give him special knowledge (the supposed "one gospel") if that special knowledge was already taught to the Twelve? Why add a Thirteenth?

Why couldn't Christ have given the Twelve that said greater understanding?

 

[Aimiel]

He did... through Paul. Not only was he the thirteenth but there are others, as well. Keeping the tradition going: God still gives apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. We are all given more of God's revelation through the generations. What significance do you give to the twelve, other than the fact that they walked with Christ while He preached The Kingdom?

 

[clefty]

God called many people - Paul was one of them. He gave himself fully to the ministry of the Gospel, and God was able to use him to reach many. You assume there is something special about Paul, even as Paul tells you that he is merely one of many servants of the Lord.



God continued to make apostles because the Gospel message was to be spread to the entire world. 12 or 13 people doesn't cut it - that's merely a starting place.

First it is “there was the Old Testament and it is abolished replaced by the new”

And now it is “there was a first gospel...and then a second”

Peter was clear he expected the goyim baptized just like the jews...NO DISTINCTION was found...and the Spirit given to both...

and no distinction INCLUDES that it is THE SAME GOSPEL FOR BOTH

Just as it was ONE LAW for both native and foreigner when the church was in the wilderness...

 

[csuguy]

First it is “there was the Old Testament and it is abolished replaced by the new”

It wasn't abolished. It was made obselete, but it isn't gone yet.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.​

Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.​

And now it is “there was a first gospel...and then a second”

You don't get to assume the presence of a second gospel. It isn't taught anywhere in scripture, nor did the Early Church Fathers write of any such thing. The idea is being pulled from thin air. Paul himself claims to have taught the Gospel of Christ.

Peter was clear he expected the goyim baptized just like the jews...NO DISTICTION

Paul wasn't against baptism, so...?

and no distiction INCLUDES THE SAME GOSPEL FOR BOTH

Just as it was ONE LAW for both native and foreigner when the church was in the wilderness...

Indeed :thumb:

Under the New Covenant God's Law is written on our hearts and minds

 

[clefty]

It wasn't abolished. It was made obselete, but it isn't gone yet.

ummm...right the covenant/contract with national Israel His wife was voided when they killed their Husband...His death their “I do” did part...

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.​

yup...soon it was passed but He has a new bride faithful to the same conditions...

Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.​

yup...heaven and earth have NOT disappeared thus not the least of the Law has disappeared...

You don't get to assume the presence of a second gospel. It isn't taught anywhere in scripture, nor did the Early Church Fathers write of any such thing. The idea is being pulled from thin air. Paul himself claims to have taught the Gospel of Christ.

right I don’t...just like I don’t assume I can worship another god, make idols, blaspheme His name, dishonor my parents, kill, steal, commit adultery, bare false witness, covet...did I miss any? Oh yeah...I can NOT assume Sunday church is ok...or it’s ham dinners after...

Paul wasn't against baptism, so...?

yes I know...first European convert Lydia was baptized in the river...on a Sabbath

Other WWJD Christians claim neither is for them...

Indeed :thumb:

Under the New Covenant God's Law is written on our hearts and minds

HalleluYah...same ones...as His people are NOT divided between those that did and those that did not...