Cross Reference
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<I need a break from all this confusion. Maybe later when the water is more clear.>
Somewhere we must work these words into our narrative. In the middle of his story, Job declares, "For I know that my Kinnsmen Redeemer lives (go'el and he shall stand at last on the earth. And after my skin is destroyed, this I know: That in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me" (Job 19.25-27).
Thank-you...
What title in Athanasius were you reading on life and death as becoming and unbecoming?
Did you read "On the Incarnation"?
My catechist, Fr. Joseph, catechized from it - He used yellow highlighter to highlight just the very most important sentences throughout the book...
Every page was solid yellow...
Arsenios
Question, Arsenios:
In my studies, especially of the Greek language (although I was told that the same concept holds true in Hebrew), I was taught that the derivative of epi, English "upon," contains the idea of being immersed in water, specifically the wetness of the water contacting every point of exterior surface: above, below, and around. That, I was taught, was the concept that I should take to my understanding of the Spirit coming upon Saints in the OT, even the NT prior to Pentecost. So I have held that concept.
Here's an interesting statement. In an interpretive aside offered by St John to our Lord's promise of living water to those who believe in him (water which, BTW, would be digested internally), John wrote: "This he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
My question: what in your mind is the difference, if any, between the Holy Spirit immersing, epi, OT believers and indwelling, as in ingesting, believers after Christ's glorification; He being Christ in us, the hope of Glory?
why did Jesus have to come
if
salvation was already possible?
He came for the sick.
Ad hominem to avoid the issue?And your, understanding my good man, matches any one of many spiritualist cults out there I encounter from time to time which are short on grasping the issues.
Please define 1. "original sin", 2. Penalty for sin as just being death of some sort short of eternal and 3. Love of God and man being sufficient for eternal life? Try to fit Jesus in all that if you can.
Not at all intended to be such. Just an observation based upon personal experience.Ad hominem to avoid the issue?
Jesus was the one who said it. Did you read those verses? Jesus came for the sick, some were sick (sinful) enough to be wicked and not acceptable to God. Everybody has sin and needs to be saved from sin here today. Today is the day of salvation.
But, you conveniently believe that is all He came to do by ignoring the other reasons He mentions, i.e., set the captives free; call sinners to repentance; heal the blind; otherwise, reveal the government of God in human flesh, et al. Even Paul’s whole soul and mind and heart were taken up with the same great matter of what Jesus Christ came to do, he never lost sight of that one thing, cf l Cor.2:2 KJV.
I think I said as much already but it's going to take some effort to think differently.
Indeed. In times as these, I wouldn't wait a minute longer to get started.. Please, give the definitions.
He came for the sick.
You conveniently believe... by ignoring...
Exactly - He did not come for the righteous, but to call sinners to repentance... And if you are a doer of sin, you are sin-sick... And it is for YOU that Christ came, that you should turn from your sins in repentance, amending your life, and gain the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, which is the Ekklesia of God, the Body of Christ, the Apostolic Church of Christ on earth...
Arsenios
A Christian does not sin.
Exactly - He did not come for the righteous, but to call sinners to repentance...
are you mad?
aren't we all sinners?
NO! That is a fact. Why seek to make excuses re why we don't pursue that path?
I am not. I am a saint ___ learning how to be faithful in Christ.
A Christian does not sin.