ECT SALVATION: OLD TESTAMENT VS NEW

Arsenios

Well-known member
Our one baptism (Ephesians 4:5 KJV) is by one Spirit into one Body, not in water. The Spirit is the baptizer, not man!

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This is a common mistranslation - The Greek does not say we are baptized BY one Spirit, but IN one Spirit, and that IN carries the meaning of WITHIN or AMONG... Strong's 1722... EN...

The EN would have to NOT be there in order for the grammar to mean a dative of agency - eg BY...

Christ baptizes IN the Holy Spirit BY His Servants, Ananias, Peter, Andrew, etc etc...

Arsenios
 

TFTn5280

New member
God is always willing to forgive...

Arsenios

Hi Arsenios

I agree with you that God is always willing to forgive; however, I think I may differ with you as to when that forgiveness takes/took place. When I read in 2 Cor 5.19 (as in other places), "that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them," I take that to mean the sins of OT saints as well, as in it was at the cross that their sins were forgiven.

I understand the sacrifices of the OT as coverings for sins that would be forgiven in the Christ event, he being the substance of those sacrifices. Would you mind commenting on this?
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Judging yourself IS "your call". It begins with you. God's word tells us that __but you refuse to hear His Word and that is the problem.

I haven't been arguing with you. You have been arguing with me. What you do by your lack of genuineness is foster disagreement which promotes strife. I would back off any discussion if all I placed my faith in was the RCC missal.

You sure seem to love to accuse...

I don't think I have ever seen an RCC missal...

ME NO RCC

You can ask Chrysostom...

ANOTHER false accusation...

Thank-you for the blessing...

Mat 5:11
Blessed are ye,
when men shall revile you,
and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely,
for My sake.



Arsenios
 

Cross Reference

New member
You sure seem to love to accuse...

I don't think I have ever seen an RCC missal...

ME NO RCC

You can ask Chrysostom...

ANOTHER false accusation...

Thank-you for the blessing...

Mat 5:11
Blessed are ye,
when men shall revile you,
and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely,
for My sake.



Arsenios


Well, you get your non-understanding from someplace and it isn't from any Bible I recognize. Your mis-use of it persuades me in it that.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
This is a common mistranslation - The Greek does not say we are baptized BY one Spirit, but IN one Spirit, and that IN carries the meaning of WITHIN or AMONG... Strong's 1722... EN...

The EN would have to NOT be there in order for the grammar to mean a dative of agency - eg BY...

Christ baptizes IN the Holy Spirit BY His Servants, Ananias, Peter, Andrew, etc etc...

Arsenios
Now why would you want to go and change what saith the scripture except you have an agenda?


1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV means what it says! The Spirit is the baptizer!
 

Cross Reference

New member
This is a common mistranslation - The Greek does not say we are baptized BY one Spirit, but IN one Spirit, and that IN carries the meaning of WITHIN or AMONG... Strong's 1722... EN...

The EN would have to NOT be there in order for the grammar to mean a dative of agency - eg BY...

Christ baptizes IN the Holy Spirit BY His Servants, Ananias, Peter, Andrew, etc etc...

Arsenios

Baloney! To be one in the Father is the work of the Holy Spirit working in and upon the new born child of God.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Hi Arsenios

I agree with you that God is always willing to forgive; however, I think I may differ with you as to when that forgiveness takes/took place. When I read in 2 Cor 5.19 (as in other places), "that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them," I take that to mean the sins of OT saints as well, as in it was at the cross that their sins were forgiven.

I understand the sacrifices of the OT as coverings for sins that would be forgiven in the Christ event, he being the substance of those sacrifices. Would you mind commenting on this?

Have you considered why we are no longer under the Levitical Law of Moses according to Paul? The REAL reason? It is not because the Law cannot save us, or make us righteous, or any of those true things with which Paul argued against the Circumcision... Paul carefully explained that it is because the Law only pertains to those who are alive... And we, in that lifeless corpse, that dead Jew hanging from the Cross, are DEAD... And this because we are baptized INTO Christ, and into His Death on that Cross - A long, slow and painful death - THAT is the mark of the witness [martyr] of the Christian Saint...

We need and receive forgiveness, but what is needed, beneath forgiveness for sin, is to DIE to sin... This means to die to the world, (where our feet walk, but where we are now strangers, hidden in
Christ)... If we but confess, God forgives, but we are not yet healed, and we will offend again... It is the healing that the Church disciples, administering the medicines of immortality of repentance through the Holy Mysteries of the Church... It is our infirmities that we need to heal, which is far beyond merely being forgiven... And this is the healing of the soul of man in the discipleship of the Church in obedience to the commands our Lord gave to His Apostles, and indeed gave to Paul, and to all those called to be Apostles...

Gotta run...

Arsenios
 

Livelystone

New member
Baloney! To be one in the Father is the work of the Holy Spirit working in and upon the new born child of God.

This is not true albeit you have a lot company who think as you do.

However, the truth is to try and make the spirit of man become holy and acceptable to God is an exercise in futility because it is not possible.

We were not given the Holy Spirit to shape us (the spirit of man) into His image and likeness but so His seed in us would become us.

For this to happen the spirit of man in us (Adam) along with the soul of man (Eve) need to die. They will die in the same manner light displaces darkness as the Holy Spirit of God (that is light) in us begets the Soul of God AKA the mind of Christ (mind, will & emotions of Jesus but only if the person given the Holy Spirt learns the truth of the foundation of Christ as listed in He,6:1-2) becomes our spirit and soul. This is the only way a Christian can appear in one spirit with the Lord.

This is the forming of the fullness of Christ in us that is the high calling of our profession. Mainstream evangelical denominations that include all flavors of Pentecostalism have yet to be able grasp this. However if they are to have any hope of becoming able to stand in the evil day, they must first learn the truth......... otherwise they will fall with everyone else.
 

Livelystone

New member
thats a aweful nice way to tell someone to go to hell,,aint it,,

Had not thought of it that way.

What I was thinking is if he does not change the path he is on he will die in his sins.......... something I would rather not see happen to him

There are a couple of persons whom I have met in life that I feel as Paul did when he spoke of turning a person over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that spirit may be saved......... CR is not one of those persons albeit there are one or two others who fall into that category.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Now why would you want to go and change what saith the scripture except you have an agenda?


1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV means what it says! The Spirit is the baptizer!

The KJV, which I love, is, after all, a TRANSLATION, a VERSION, of the Bible which was written, for the most part in the New Testament at least, in Greek... So whenever I find something being said that is being proven by ANY translation which seems awry somehow, I first go to the Greek Bible to see what is actually written... The KJV is not always accurate in its rendering of the Greek text, and the enemy is always looking for some way to exploit anything it can...

And more than that, Bibles are interpreted according to one's beliefs, and the translation will reflect those beliefs... Puritans, for instance, did not like part of the Bible, and removed the Deuterocanonicals from it...

But the word translated here as BY is the Greek word EN, Strong's #1722, and it means IN, WITHIN, and AMONG... It does not mean BY... That would only be a proper translation IF there were no EN or other preposition...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Well, you get your non-understanding from someplace and it isn't from any Bible I recognize. Your mis-use of it persuades me in it that.

I use the Greek Christian Bible, and you use an English version of it... Whenever I check a translation, I give it as close to an interlinear word for word rendering as I can manage... It is easy to check and see if I am wrong...

I can give fuller more exegetical translations where I spell out words that are clearly implicit in the text but omitted in the Greek, and when I do so, I put them is parentheses...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Baloney!

To be one in the Father is the work of the Holy Spirit working in and upon the new born child of God.

And Cheese!

You can only be one with the Father by entering the Kingdom of Heaven through Baptism into Christ and becoming a member of His Body, the Ekklesia...

The question is: "Who is the One DOING the baptizing INTO Christ?"

And the Answer is Christ, at the hands of His Baptized Servants...

The Holy Spirit does NOT baptize...

He is the Spirit WITHIN WHOM Christ baptized...

He is the Spirit Who is GIVEN by Christ, through the hands of His Servants in His Body...

There is not even one passage that shows the Holy Spirit DOING a Baptism...

Human hands only do so, in obedience to Christ...


Arsenios
 
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Cross Reference

New member
And Cheese!

You can only be one with the Father by entering the Kingdom of Heaven through Baptism into Christ and becoming a member of His Body, the Ekklesia...

The question is: "Who is the One DOING the baptizing INTO Christ?"

And the Answer is Christ, at the hands of His Baptized Servants...

The Holy Spirit does NOT baptize...

He is the Spirit WITHIN WHOM Christ baptized...

He is the Spirit Who is GIVEN by Christ, through the hands of His Servants in His Body...

There is not even one passage that shows the Holy Spirit DOING a Baptism...

Human hands only do so, in obedience to Christ...


Arsenios

Ditto my last . . . beyond that , whatever.
 
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