Roy Moore, OJ Simpson, And why I don't believe you.

[rexlunae]

Thus far, evidence against Moore and Trump =/= evidence against Franken.

Specifically?

 

[ClimateSanity]

Still doesn't rise even a tenth of the way to the level of the allegations against either Roy Moore or Trump. Clean your own house, dude.

Allegations dude..... what part of that do you not get??????

Franken has real evidence against him

 

[rexlunae]

Allegations dude..... what part of that do you not get??????

You don't believe them?

Franken has real evidence against him

And you think Moore doesn't?

This has turned into quite an exercise in motivated reasoning.

 

[Tambora]

They are going to have to forgive me if I don't believe them.

As far as I know, Gloria Allred has not released the yearbook for analysis of the handwriting.

I will interject here that as soon as I heard Gloria Allred was involved, my red flag radar went off.
She is notorious for taking cases mostly for agenda hype rather than having any substance, and milk it for all it's worth.
While that doesn't mean this case is not legit, I would have had less doubt if it had been an unbiased reputable lawyer.

It has been suggested that the yearbook entry is entirely forged.
Suggested that it was forged from a document from 1999 of Nelson's divorce case.
She and husband decided to try again and cancelled the proceedings.
Judge Moore was not the judge assigned to her divorce case, but his name does appear on the dismissal documents (as a rubber stamp signature initialed by his aide Delbra Adams).

The "DA" was the initial of Delbra Adams, who was Moor's assistant at the time and has come forward to verify that it was indeed her initials.
The Moore signature was a rubber stamp signature in which whoever was filing it (assistant or clerk) would initial the stamp afterwards to verify.


OLDE HICKORY HOUSE
This was the name of the diner Nelson claims to have been a waitress in 1977 at the age of 15.
But other employees of the same time period say that no one under 16 could be hired.

Jeff Devine dated Nelson in 1977.
He is now a pastor, married with children.
He was not her only boyfriend that she dated.
She was dating at least one other boy at the time, the same boy she would later marry.
He does not remember Nelson working at any diner at all.
In his ministry, he said he worked with many victims of trauma, and when he watched Nelson's interviews on the media, he did not believe her.
There was just something "off" about it and he did not think she exhibited the reactions he was used to with the victims he had dealt with.
But he admits he is no 'expert', but is experienced.


Nelson also claims that Moore came into the diner almost every day.
But other employees that worked there said they NEVER remembered seeing Roy Moore there.

Rhonda Ledbetter, a retired public school teacher, was a waitress at Olde Hickory House for almost three years from 1977-1979.
Her testimony:

Spoiler

She said in a statement: “When I heard Beverly Nelson’s story, there were several details that were different from what I remember. I was nervous at coming forward because of all the attention this story has gotten, but as a moral and ethical person I had to speak up about what I know to be true. I was a waitress at Olde Hickory for almost three years from 1977-1979, and I never saw Roy Moore come in to the restaurant. Not one time. And I would have noticed because most of our customers weren’t wearing suits, especially not at night. Many customers worked at Goodyear next door and would stop in on their way to and from work, and I don’t remember anyone from the courthouse coming in at all. That just wasn’t our crowd.”

Spoiler

“A few things stuck out to me. First, Nelson said she was 15 years old when she started working there but you had to be 16,” Ledbetter said in her statement. “I don’t remember her from my time there, and I don’t remember any 15 year olds working there at all. Second, Nelson said the restaurant closed at 10 p.m. but I know the earliest it closed was 11, though I believe it was midnight. I’m certain of that because Goodyear employees came in to eat after their shift ended at 10:00 p.m., so there’s no way we would have closed at that time.”“Third, the area wasn’t dark and isolated as she described,” Ledbetter claimed. “Rather, the building was right off the busy four-lane highway and people and cars were always around. The restaurant had a wrap-around porch, like the ones at Cracker Barrel restaurants, and there were lights all around the sides of the building. So it wasn’t dark and anyone in the parking lot was visible from the road.”“Fourth, the dumpsters were to the side of the building, not around back and there sure wasn’t room to park in between the building and the dumpsters,” Ledbetter said. “People from the kitchen would take trash out of the side door and throw it right into the dumpsters. We were always told to park on the side of the building, because there just wasn’t much room behind it. I don’t remember there being an exit from the back of the parking lot, there would barely have been enough room to turn a car around.”“I came forward because from what I’ve seen, the media is only interested in reporting one side of this story,” Ledbetter said. “In fact, Dixon Hayes from WRBC in Birmingham asked for former employees to contact him but never responded when I told him I never saw Roy Moore come into Olde Hickory House during the three years I worked for. Two other news outlets in the state asked to interview me and I agreed, but neither one has aired my interview and I have to wonder why they don’t think the people of Alabama deserve to hear anything that counteracts the accusations against Judge Moore. It’s not for me to say whether or not something happened, I can only tell the truth about factual details that I know for sure. I think all Alabamians deserve to have all of the facts so they can decide for themselves what the truth is. Despite what the national media and people in DC might say, Alabama voters are intelligent and have common sense. We don’t need anyone to tell us how to vote or to explain to us what really happened. We will make that decision and I just wanted to do my part in sharing the truth on some of these important facts. I, like all Alabama voters, want any and all information that can shed light on the truth.”

Johnny Belyeu, Sr. is a former police officer with over two decades of experience with the Etowah County Sheriff’s Department and the Gadsden Police Department. He said in a statement, “I was an officer with the Etowah County Sheriff’s Department in the 1970s which means I worked in the courthouse and knew who Roy Moore was since he was the Deputy District Attorney at the time. I was a regular customer at Olde Hickory House, and I never once saw Judge Moore come in there. If he had I would have immediately recognized him. I also never met Beverly Nelson during any of the many times I frequented the restaurant, and I can’t say that she even worked there.”


Renee Schivera of Huntsville stated, “I was a waitress at the Olde Hickory House during the summer of 1977, before my senior year of high school. When I heard Beverly Nelson’s story the first thing that stuck out to me was that I don’t remember Roy Moore ever coming into the restaurant. I also don’t remember her working there. The other thing that struck me as odd is that from my best recollection, the dumpsters were to the side of the building. I just know they were visible from the road, and not back behind the building. But the main thing is that if someone came in almost every night we knew who there were, and I never saw Roy Moore there. As a Christian woman, I wouldn’t lie for anyone and I am only sharing what I know because it’s the truth.”

Nelson’s stepson says that she is lying and that he supports Moore.

 

[Derf]

As far as I know, Gloria Allred has not released the yearbook for analysis of the handwriting.

I will interject here that as soon as I heard Gloria Allred was involved, my red flag radar went off.
She is notorious for taking cases mostly for agenda hype rather than having any substance, and milk it for all it's worth.
While that doesn't mean this case is not legit, I would have had less doubt if it had been an unbiased reputable lawyer.

It has been suggested that the yearbook entry is entirely forged.
Suggested that it was forged from a document from 1999 of Nelson's divorce case.
She and husband decided to try again and cancelled the proceedings.
Judge Moore was not the judge assigned to her divorce case, but his name does appear on the dismissal documents (as a rubber stamp signature initialed by his aide Delbra Adams).

The "DA" was the initial of Delbra Adams, who was Moor's assistant at the time and has come forward to verify that it was indeed her initials.
The Moore signature was a rubber stamp signature in which whoever was filing it (assistant or clerk) would initial the stamp afterwards to verify.


OLDE HICKORY HOUSE
This was the name of the diner Nelson claims to have been a waitress in 1977 at the age of 15.
But other employees of the same time period say that no one under 16 could be hired.

Jeff Devine dated Nelson in 1977.
He is now a pastor, married with children.
He was not her only boyfriend that she dated.
She was dating at least one other boy at the time, the same boy she would later marry.
He does not remember Nelson working at any diner at all.
In his ministry, he said he worked with many victims of trauma, and when he watched Nelson's interviews on the media, he did not believe her.
There was just something "off" about it and he did not think she exhibited the reactions he was used to with the victims he had dealt with.
But he admits he is no 'expert', but is experienced.


Nelson also claims that Moore came into the diner almost every day.
But other employees that worked there said they NEVER remembered seeing Roy Moore there.

Rhonda Ledbetter, a retired public school teacher, was a waitress at Olde Hickory House for almost three years from 1977-1979.
Her testimony:

Spoiler

She said in a statement: “When I heard Beverly Nelson’s story, there were several details that were different from what I remember. I was nervous at coming forward because of all the attention this story has gotten, but as a moral and ethical person I had to speak up about what I know to be true. I was a waitress at Olde Hickory for almost three years from 1977-1979, and I never saw Roy Moore come in to the restaurant. Not one time. And I would have noticed because most of our customers weren’t wearing suits, especially not at night. Many customers worked at Goodyear next door and would stop in on their way to and from work, and I don’t remember anyone from the courthouse coming in at all. That just wasn’t our crowd.”

Spoiler

“A few things stuck out to me. First, Nelson said she was 15 years old when she started working there but you had to be 16,” Ledbetter said in her statement. “I don’t remember her from my time there, and I don’t remember any 15 year olds working there at all. Second, Nelson said the restaurant closed at 10 p.m. but I know the earliest it closed was 11, though I believe it was midnight. I’m certain of that because Goodyear employees came in to eat after their shift ended at 10:00 p.m., so there’s no way we would have closed at that time.”“Third, the area wasn’t dark and isolated as she described,” Ledbetter claimed. “Rather, the building was right off the busy four-lane highway and people and cars were always around. The restaurant had a wrap-around porch, like the ones at Cracker Barrel restaurants, and there were lights all around the sides of the building. So it wasn’t dark and anyone in the parking lot was visible from the road.”“Fourth, the dumpsters were to the side of the building, not around back and there sure wasn’t room to park in between the building and the dumpsters,” Ledbetter said. “People from the kitchen would take trash out of the side door and throw it right into the dumpsters. We were always told to park on the side of the building, because there just wasn’t much room behind it. I don’t remember there being an exit from the back of the parking lot, there would barely have been enough room to turn a car around.”“I came forward because from what I’ve seen, the media is only interested in reporting one side of this story,” Ledbetter said. “In fact, Dixon Hayes from WRBC in Birmingham asked for former employees to contact him but never responded when I told him I never saw Roy Moore come into Olde Hickory House during the three years I worked for. Two other news outlets in the state asked to interview me and I agreed, but neither one has aired my interview and I have to wonder why they don’t think the people of Alabama deserve to hear anything that counteracts the accusations against Judge Moore. It’s not for me to say whether or not something happened, I can only tell the truth about factual details that I know for sure. I think all Alabamians deserve to have all of the facts so they can decide for themselves what the truth is. Despite what the national media and people in DC might say, Alabama voters are intelligent and have common sense. We don’t need anyone to tell us how to vote or to explain to us what really happened. We will make that decision and I just wanted to do my part in sharing the truth on some of these important facts. I, like all Alabama voters, want any and all information that can shed light on the truth.”

Johnny Belyeu, Sr. is a former police officer with over two decades of experience with the Etowah County Sheriff’s Department and the Gadsden Police Department. He said in a statement, “I was an officer with the Etowah County Sheriff’s Department in the 1970s which means I worked in the courthouse and knew who Roy Moore was since he was the Deputy District Attorney at the time. I was a regular customer at Olde Hickory House, and I never once saw Judge Moore come in there. If he had I would have immediately recognized him. I also never met Beverly Nelson during any of the many times I frequented the restaurant, and I can’t say that she even worked there.”


Renee Schivera of Huntsville stated, “I was a waitress at the Olde Hickory House during the summer of 1977, before my senior year of high school. When I heard Beverly Nelson’s story the first thing that stuck out to me was that I don’t remember Roy Moore ever coming into the restaurant. I also don’t remember her working there. The other thing that struck me as odd is that from my best recollection, the dumpsters were to the side of the building. I just know they were visible from the road, and not back behind the building. But the main thing is that if someone came in almost every night we knew who there were, and I never saw Roy Moore there. As a Christian woman, I wouldn’t lie for anyone and I am only sharing what I know because it’s the truth.”

Nelson’s stepson says that she is lying and that he supports Moore.

Olde Hickory House is a funny detail for the accuser to add if there isn't at least some connection to it, either for her or for Moore. This might be a point in her favor.

If she did work there (the other people might have forgotten her??) the detail about only 16 and up working there is interesting. It might mean she lied about her age to get the job, and possibly to go out with Moore, assuming she ever did.

Once again it shows why there is a statute of limitations, and also why we have the sixth amendment to the constitution:

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right

1. to a speedy and public trial,
2. by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,
3. which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and
4. to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation;
5. to be confronted with the witnesses against him;
6. to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and
7. to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Despite claims to the contrary, this is being viewed by many as essentially a criminal trial, with the intended effect being to change the outcome in an election IN and BY the state of Alabama by an organization that is NOT in Alabama. (In another world, that would be called election interference, and people in Washington would be VERY CONCERNED about it.)

But notice the different sub-clauses of the amendment that should be at play in this discussion, if it were being handled as a criminal prosecution. And notice that the whole purpose of this amendment is to prevent injustice being done to the accused.

I suggest that #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, AND #7 are in full or in part being denied to Moore. (I almost left #7 off, but based on the story in your post about the news outlets not airing the lady's interview, I believe that Moore's counsel is being effectively silenced by not allowing him proper time to present his defense.)

 

[patrick jane]

The dems gave up the moral high ground this weekend.

 

[WizardofOz]

Once again it shows why there is a statute of limitations, and also why we have the sixth amendment to the constitution:

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right

1. to a speedy and public trial,
2. by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed,
3. which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and
4. to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation;
5. to be confronted with the witnesses against him;
6. to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and
7. to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Despite claims to the contrary, this is being viewed by many as essentially a criminal trial, with the intended effect being to change the outcome in an election IN and BY the state of Alabama by an organization that is NOT in Alabama. (In another world, that would be called election interference, and people in Washington would be VERY CONCERNED about it.)

But notice the different sub-clauses of the amendment that should be at play in this discussion, if it were being handled as a criminal prosecution. And notice that the whole purpose of this amendment is to prevent injustice being done to the accused.

I suggest that #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, AND #7 are in full or in part being denied to Moore. (I almost left #7 off, but based on the story in your post about the news outlets not airing the lady's interview, I believe that Moore's counsel is being effectively silenced by not allowing him proper time to present his defense.)

:doh:
This is asinine. There isn't a criminal prosecution. Roy Moore isn't being charged with any crime so all these points are moot and it's largely ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

 

[WizardofOz]

In other Roy Moore corruption news:

Undisclosed deal guaranteed Roy Moore $180,000 a year for part-time work at charity

Former Alabama judge Roy Moore, a Republican candidate for U.S. Senate, once said publicly that he did not take a “regular salary” from the small charity he founded to promote Christian values because he did not want to be a financial burden. But privately, Moore had arranged to receive a salary of $180,000 a year for part-time work at the Foundation for Moral Law, internal charity documents show. He collected more than $1 million as president from 2007 to 2012, compensation that far surpassed what the group disclosed in its public tax filings most of those years. When the charity couldn’t afford the full amount, Moore in 2012 was given a promissory note for back pay eventually worth $540,000 or an equal stake of the charity’s most valuable asset, a historic building in Montgomery, Ala., mortgage records show. He holds that note even now, a charity official said.

Just another nail in the 'credibility of Roy Moore's' coffin.

I think the baloney radar is malfunctioning for a lot of Roy Moore defenders.

 

[patrick jane]

In other Roy Moore corruption news:

Undisclosed deal guaranteed Roy Moore $180,000 a year for part-time work at charity

Former Alabama judge Roy Moore, a Republican candidate for U.S. Senate, once said publicly that he did not take a “regular salary” from the small charity he founded to promote Christian values because he did not want to be a financial burden. But privately, Moore had arranged to receive a salary of $180,000 a year for part-time work at the Foundation for Moral Law, internal charity documents show. He collected more than $1 million as president from 2007 to 2012, compensation that far surpassed what the group disclosed in its public tax filings most of those years. When the charity couldn’t afford the full amount, Moore in 2012 was given a promissory note for back pay eventually worth $540,000 or an equal stake of the charity’s most valuable asset, a historic building in Montgomery, Ala., mortgage records show. He holds that note even now, a charity official said.

Just another nail in the 'credibility of Roy Moore's' coffin.

I think the baloney radar is malfunctioning for a lot of Roy Moore defenders.

Don't tell aCW !!!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

In other Roy Moore corruption news:

Undisclosed deal guaranteed Roy Moore $180,000 a year for part-time work at charity

Former Alabama judge Roy Moore, a Republican candidate for U.S. Senate, once said publicly that he did not take a “regular salary” from the small charity he founded to promote Christian values because he did not want to be a financial burden. But privately, Moore had arranged to receive a salary of $180,000 a year for part-time work at the Foundation for Moral Law, internal charity documents show. He collected more than $1 million as president from 2007 to 2012, compensation that far surpassed what the group disclosed in its public tax filings most of those years. When the charity couldn’t afford the full amount, Moore in 2012 was given a promissory note for back pay eventually worth $540,000 or an equal stake of the charity’s most valuable asset, a historic building in Montgomery, Ala., mortgage records show. He holds that note even now, a charity official said.

Just another nail in the 'credibility of Roy Moore's' coffin.

I think the baloney radar is malfunctioning for a lot of Roy Moore defenders.

Baloney.

Starting with the word "but".

 

[Derf]

:doh:
This is asinine. There isn't a criminal prosecution. Roy Moore isn't being charged with any crime so all these points are moot and it's largely ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

I agree that it isn't a criminal prosecution, but I disagree that he isn't being charged with any crime.

The NY Times disagrees with you:
Mr. Moore was defiant, denying the charges and attacking the news media.

Thank liberals if Roy Moore survives the charges against him

Roy Moore, and Other Harassment Charges

US News and World Report disagrees with you:
The Sick Defenses of the Sexual Charges Against Alabama's Roy Moore

NPR disagrees with you:
Another woman has charged that Alabama Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore sexually assaulted her

The Baltimore Sun disagrees with you:
Three other females have leveled similar charges against Mr. Moore...

Most dictionaries disagree with you, as they list "charge" as a synonym of "allegation", and I think everybody would agree that these are "allegations".

If they aren't charges/allegations of criminal activity, are they merely appealing to the gross-out factor of a couple that are more than 14 years apart in age? That's just a matter of taste, isn't it? Of both the man and the woman?

If it's just a matter of taste or opinion, then why does anyone care? Isn't that exactly what elections are all about?

 

[ClimateSanity]

You don't believe them?



And you think Moore doesn't?

This has turned into quite an exercise in motivated reasoning.

Why should I believe them???? Because they said so???? I suspect any allegation that is decades old and just brought forward in time for an election.

I have yet to see one allegation supported with one shred of evidence. So far, multiple accusers and their allegations have huge holes in them and / or outright debunked.

If every allegation that has been seriously looked into so far has either fallen apart and given very good reason to doubt given the evidence, why should I give the rest of the accusers carte blanche belief?

I take it you believe the Democrats and their operatives and those with something to gain are beyond a political hit job????

I also take it you have full confidence in the Washington Post that they are disinterested honest people with no agenda whatsoever????

 

[ClimateSanity]

You don't believe them?



And you think Moore doesn't?

This has turned into quite an exercise in motivated reasoning.

Where is the real evidence against Moore? There is none. BTW, several people all agreeing on accusations is not evidence.

 

[ClimateSanity]

You don't believe them?



And you think Moore doesn't?

This has turned into quite an exercise in motivated reasoning.

I'm very interested in seeing what you think is evidence for Moore's accusations. I can get very busy and answers get buried easily, so please pm me after you answer.

 

[WizardofOz]

Baloney.

Starting with the word "but".

That doesn't even make sense. He said one thing but the truth was found to be different than what he publicly claimed.

Further,

The charity has employed at least two of Moore’s children, although their compensation is not reflected in tax filings. Moore’s wife, Kayla, who is now president, was paid a total of $195,000 over three years through 2015. Moore’s charitable and political activities have also overlapped in significant ways. The former longtime executive director of the charity now serves as Moore’s campaign manager. The charity retained the same fundraising firm used by three of Moore’s most recent campaigns for state office, public records show. An Internal Revenue Service audit of the Foundation for Moral Law’s 2013 finances, provided by the charity, concluded that it left out information about fundraising and other activities on its public tax filings and also identified discrepancies between those filings and its internal books. The IRS wrote that the issues “could jeopardize your exempt status.” Spoiler

The IRS audit already concluded that information was omitted, so...

 

[WizardofOz]

I agree that it isn't a criminal prosecution, but I disagree that he isn't being charged with any crime.

The NY Times disagrees with you:
Mr. Moore was defiant, denying the charges and attacking the news media.

Thank liberals if Roy Moore survives the charges against him

Roy Moore, and Other Harassment Charges

US News and World Report disagrees with you:
The Sick Defenses of the Sexual Charges Against Alabama's Roy Moore

NPR disagrees with you:
Another woman has charged that Alabama Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore sexually assaulted her

The Baltimore Sun disagrees with you:
Three other females have leveled similar charges against Mr. Moore...

Most dictionaries disagree with you, as they list "charge" as a synonym of "allegation", and I think everybody would agree that these are "allegations".

No, Derf. They don't "disagree" they are simply using the term differently than you first did. A charge, as in an accusation, is different than a charge, as in a criminal charge, of a crime.

Being accused of a crime is not the same as being formally charged with a crime. You brought up a criminal prosecution when there isn't one.

If they aren't charges/allegations of criminal activity, are they merely appealing to the gross-out factor of a couple that are more than 14 years apart in age? That's just a matter of taste, isn't it? Of both the man and the woman?

If it's just a matter of taste or opinion, then why does anyone care? Isn't that exactly what elections are all about?

It's about getting a complete picture of the character of a man running for US senate. Some find a man who, as a matter of taste, preferred minors when he was in his 30s, as someone they wouldn't vote for.

I'm sure others will hold their nose and vote for him anyway.

 

[Derf]

No, Derf. They don't "disagree" they are simply using the term differently than you first did. A charge, as in an accusation, is different than a charge, as in a criminal charge, of a crime.

Being accused of a crime is not the same as being formally charged with a crime. You brought up a criminal prosecution when there isn't one.



It's about getting a complete picture of the character of a man running for US senate. Some find a man who, as a matter of taste, preferred minors when he was in his 30s, as someone they wouldn't vote for.

I'm sure others will hold their nose and vote for him anyway.

Ah, I see. Now you clarify that you mean "formally" charged. I can see where all the news agencies that said he was being "charged" also forgot that little word. I'm sure it wasn't done intentionally to try to sway the election in Alabama.

And I guess we can do away with all of this hubbub, since you agree with me that it is merely an opinion of what is appropriate in terms of who a woman can date, if she wants to. After all, if a young woman wants to identify as a sexually older woman, that's ok, too, isn't it, just as an older man should be able to identify as a sexually younger man, yes? How crazy it must seem for you to see these articles about Moore's sexual preferences, not to mention the young women's, and try to imagine anyone finding any fault at all.

It must not be a problem, then, that those women, though "minors" in your eyes, are able to consent to sexual activity and marriage in the eyes of the law? And therefore it must not be a problem if they thought, maybe for just a little bit of time, that they might like to date, and possibly even marry, an older man? Is that wrong of them?

Seems like you are accusing the young women of being "creepy" just as much as you are accusing Moore.

But at least you admit that it's only "a matter of taste".

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

That doesn't even make sense. He said one thing but the truth was found to be different than what he publicly claimed.

Further,

The charity has employed at least two of Moore’s children, although their compensation is not reflected in tax filings. Moore’s wife, Kayla, who is now president, was paid a total of $195,000 over three years through 2015. Moore’s charitable and political activities have also overlapped in significant ways. The former longtime executive director of the charity now serves as Moore’s campaign manager. The charity retained the same fundraising firm used by three of Moore’s most recent campaigns for state office, public records show. An Internal Revenue Service audit of the Foundation for Moral Law’s 2013 finances, provided by the charity, concluded that it left out information about fundraising and other activities on its public tax filings and also identified discrepancies between those filings and its internal books. The IRS wrote that the issues “could jeopardize your exempt status.” Spoiler

The IRS audit already concluded that information was omitted, so...

Yep, about money he never got paid.

Big whoop.

 

[WizardofOz]

Ah, I see. Now you clarify that you mean "formally" charged. I can see where all the news agencies that said he was being "charged" also forgot that little word. I'm sure it wasn't done intentionally to try to sway the election in Alabama.

Sorry they fooled you into thinking that he was actually being charged with a crime.

He isn't.

And I guess we can do away with all of this hubbub, since you agree with me that it is merely an opinion of what is appropriate in terms of who a woman can date, if she wants to.

Some of the accusers were minors, too young to consent. You do realize that, don't you?

Do you find it appropriate that a man in his 30s would date, kiss, touch, etc a 14 year-old girl? Is it you opinion that this would be highly inappropriate?

After all, if a young woman wants to identify as a sexually older woman, that's ok, too, isn't it

Not in the eyes of the law.

just as an older man should be able to identify as a sexually younger man, yes?

Is that what Roy Moore is saying, that it's OK because he identifies as a younger man? :nono:

If not, what is the point of your hypothetical?

How crazy it must seem for you to see these articles about Moore's sexual preferences, not to mention the young women's, and try to imagine anyone finding any fault at all.

I agree with age of consent laws. You don't?

It must not be a problem, then, that those women, though "minors" in your eyes, are able to consent to sexual activity and marriage in the eyes of the law?

A 14-year-old is not a minor in your eyes?

And you're mistaken. They are not able to consent to either, in the eyes of the law, if they are a minor.

And therefore it must not be a problem if they thought, maybe for just a little bit of time, that they might like to date, and possibly even marry, an older man? Is that wrong of them?

Right or wrong, they are in error. They cannot do so legally.

Seems like you are accusing the young women of being "creepy" just as much as you are accusing Moore.

Nope, not any more than a rape victim is guilty of any transgression.

But at least you admit that it's only "a matter of taste".

:liberals:
I'm sure you think you've made some point here.

 

[WizardofOz]

Yep, about money he never got paid.

Big whoop.

He was paid. A lot of money.

And he lied about it.

Big whoop? You have lost all standards of integrity if you ever had any to begin with.

So you go right ahead and stick your head back in the sand, just don't expect everyone else to.