Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

[clefty]

You need to spend more time on this side of the cross.

If the law didnt apply to you the cross doesnt either...

This side of the cross is WHY WE WANT TO KEEP THE LAW...cuz our Savior asked us to...if we love Him...

But yes I know it doesnt apply to you...nor does water baptism or Lord’s Prayer or supper or rewards for good works...

 

[tetelestai]

Is there not a number of years mentioned in the gospels

Jesus made it crystal clear that the temple would be destroyed, not one stone standing upon another, before the generation of His contemporaries passed away:

(Matt 24:2) "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

(Matt 24:34) Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

What Jesus said above, is exactly what happened. By 70AD, Jerusalem was totally destroyed, and not one stone was left standing upon another.

 

[clefty]

Nice try, but that's not what it says.

It clearly, explicitly says that when the priesthood changes, the law also changes.

It's really simple:

New Covenant, New Priesthood, New Law.

Why are you fighting this?

4 things were required of crowding gentiles just to hear Moses read every Sabbath from every city...so what is new? All 4 were ALREADY required in the OT of goyim...so what is new?

Of these 4, 2 of them reveal kosher laws remained...no blood and nothing strangled were dieatary regulations...

Now do you argue killing a swine kosher and draining its blood makes it clean to eat?



So lets make this easy...which of the 10 laws is no longer in the NT?

Thanks...

 

[Jacob]

Nope.

Ezekiel says animal sacrifices are for sin atonement.

(Ezk 45:17) It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Christ Jesus made a ONE TIME sacrifice for sins for all time.

To claim that in the yet future, there is going to be animal sacrifices for sins is a slap in the face for what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross, and contradicts what the writer of Hebrews wrote.

I believe that there can still be animal sacrifice even though Jesus' sacrifice was once for all. Do you discount Ezekiel as you use it to prove your point? Or, do you use Ezekiel because it has been mentioned and can be used to make your point?

 

[tetelestai]

Me fighting? Hardly just restoring from centuries of your type fighting that the law changed...

Paul makes a distinction between the two laws:

(Rom 8:2)For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There are two laws in the above.

Then, the writer of Hebrews tells us that when the priesthood changes (it did), the law also changes:

(Heb 7:12) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.S

Sooooo....both Paul and the writer of Hebrews tells us about two laws.

Yet, you claim there is only one law.

 

[Jacob]

Jesus made it crystal clear that the temple would be destroyed, not one stone standing upon another, before the generation of His contemporaries passed away:

(Matt 24:2) "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

(Matt 24:34) Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

What Jesus said above, is exactly what happened. By 70AD, Jerusalem was totally destroyed, and not one stone was left standing upon another.

True. Saying what would happen does that in your mind mean that there would never again be a legitimate temple or that the Ezekiel temple will never come to be?

 

[tetelestai]

4 things were required of crowding gentiles just to hear Moses read every Sabbath from every city...so what is new?

That's a really easy question.

ANSWER: The Covenant.

Under the Old Covenant, there was a distinction between Jew and Gentile. In the New Covenant, there is no distinction. In Christ Jesus, there is no distinction.

All 4 were ALREADY required in the OT of goyim...so what is new?

The Covenant.

Of these 4, 2 of them reveal kosher laws remained...no blood and nothing strangled were dieatary regulations...

Nothing from the Old Covenant is in the New Covenant. Christ Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is a Spiritual Covenant.

Now do you argue killing a swine kosher and draining its blood makes it clean to eat?

In the New Covenant, you can eat anything you want.

So lets make this easy...which of the 10 laws is no longer in the NT?

None of them. All of them were fulfilled by Christ Jesus.

 

[clefty]

Paul makes a distinction between the two laws:

(Rom 8:2)For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There are two laws in the above.

Then, the writer of Hebrews tells us that when the priesthood changes (it did), the law also changes:

(Heb 7:12) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.S

Sooooo....both Paul and the writer of Hebrews tells us about two laws.

Yet, you claim there is only one law.

How about “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith of Yahushua”...

So how many is that now...

One law for native and non native...said Moses...and Paul...of course it had statues and commandments and ordinances and other laws...like administration of that Law...

Not really rocket surgery but I understand your motivation to dismiss His Law

 

[tetelestai]

I believe that there can still be animal sacrifice even though Jesus' sacrifice was once for all.

That's like saying there can be another Messiah.

Do you even realize how stupid your premise is?

Do you discount Ezekiel as you use it to prove your point?

Had the Jews not turned from God, and rejected His Son, the Ezekiel prophecies would have been fulfilled. You keep forgetting that the Jews turned from God over, and over again, and then rejected His Son after they returned from Babylonian captivity.

Or, do you use Ezekiel because it has been mentioned and can be used to make your point?

I find it mind boggling that people who claim to be followers of Christ Jesus also claim that there will be animal sacrifices in the future for sin atonement (based on Ezekiel 40-48)

 

[tetelestai]

True. Saying what would happen does that in your mind mean that there would never again be a legitimate temple or that the Ezekiel temple will never come to be?

There will never again be a temple (third temple).

Christ Jesus is the temple. He is the Cornerstone. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the lively stones of the temple.

(John 2:21) But when Jesus said "this temple," he meant his own body.

 

[Jacob]

That's like saying there can be another Messiah.

Do you even realize how stupid your premise is?


Had the Jews not turned from God, and rejected His Son, the Ezekiel prophecies would have been fulfilled. You keep forgetting that the Jews turned from God over, and over again, and then rejected His Son after they returned from Babylonian captivity.




I find it mind boggling that people who claim to be followers of Christ Jesus also claim that there will be animal sacrifices in the future for sin atonement (based on Ezekiel 40-48)

If it is based on Ezekiel 40-48 then I understand your post. However, what has happened in heaven with Jesus presenting His own blood, or if it is in the temple in heaven, does that mean there is no temple on earth? Do you understand what I am saying? Animal sacrifice in the temple according to Ezekiel is not wrong, and I don't think that sacrifice in the second temple was wrong even if by a different name than Herod's temple in the time that that was going on. Certainly what can never take away sin may have in fact been commanded by God. That does not make it wrong, but provides a teaching point. So we need to know if there is a contradiction raised by this that necessitates abandoning an Ezekiel temple? The second temple was not as great as Solomon's.

 

[meshak]

I find it mind boggling that people who claim to be followers of Christ Jesus also claim that there will be animal sacrifices in the future for sin atonement (based on Ezekiel 40-48)

I think it is MAD claiming that.

 

[Jacob]

There will never again be a temple (third temple).

Christ Jesus is the temple. He is the Cornerstone. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the lively stones of the temple.

(John 2:21) But when Jesus said "this temple," he meant his own body.

You may have spiritualized something in regard to the word temple and God and Jesus and maybe even the believer. I do not deny Biblical truth. I know that I am working through something however (animal sacrifice after Christ and after the destruction of the temple).

 

[tetelestai]

I think it is MAD claiming that.

It's not only the MADist's. It's all Dispensationalists,Zionists,and Futurists.

 

[clefty]

That's a really easy question.

ANSWER: The Covenant.

BINGO...not it’s laws...is why the crowding goyim had to have some house rules just to fellowship...

Under the Old Covenant, there was a distinction between Jew and Gentile.

ironically ONE LAW for both...the SAME LAWS...especially the Sabbath one...not just Israel but strangers and animals are to keep the Sabbath...it’s written right in there...have you read it?

In the New Covenant, there is no distinction.

the jerusalem council showed otherwise...requiring 4 things for the goyim to hear Moses read to them every Sabbath...SEE SAME OT LAW

In Christ Jesus, there is no distinction.

yup...goyim were now sovereign citizens of Israel not foreigners but citizens adopted grafted into a kingdom of His Law...mind the house rules ok?

The Covenant.

indeed...with the same laws as the Old...the irony...even the kosher laws...

Nothing from the Old Covenant is in the New Covenant. Christ Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is a Spiritual Covenant.

wow you are dense...

That new covenant was signed by His blood and sealed by His death after He taught and lived what He expected from the new covenant lifestyle...you do know that once the testator is dead there are NO CHANGES permitted yes?

In the New Covenant, you can eat anything you want.

really? Human flesh too?

None of them. All of them were fulfilled by Christ Jesus.

yes yes...and by fulfilled you have them destroyed...so THINK NOT is ignored or you consider Him a LIAR...

 

[Jacob]

I think it is MAD claiming that.

Not according to my understanding.

 

[Jacob]

It's not only the MADist's. It's all Dispensationalists,Zionists,and Futurists.

I can't argue against that. Except that I have mentioned Ezekiel 40-48 before, and I am not a Dispensationalist (I grew up under dispensational teaching, thinking).

 

[clefty]

I think it is MAD claiming that.

Yup.

Sigh.

 

[clefty]

It's not only the MADist's. It's all Dispensationalists,Zionists,and Futurists.

Some messianics too...

Sigh.

 

[clefty]

There will never again be a temple (third temple).

Christ Jesus is the temple. He is the Cornerstone. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the lively stones of the temple.

(John 2:21) But when Jesus said "this temple," he meant his own body.

Well there might yet be a temple but nothing we should support or endorse...more along the line of an abomination of desolation

Third Temple is to be built then rapture to escape Armageddon troubles after supporting it and then 2/3 jews killed or something antisemitic like that and the last third to convert and then peace at last...or something

Happily some jews are even against this israel its Zionism