Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

[WrathAndRdmpt.NIG]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

Why did you change your name and start a new user?

I'm answering with a post that is earlier in this thread by myself that explains it.

So, I remade my name. I may use Nameless in Grace from time to time, but now I understand why Knight chose his name.

After following this forum after I fealt that I was part of a controlled atmosphere that panders to manmade belief systems of theology, I noted two things.

One. It isn't.

Sonnet, you were moved to pander to the whiny stone hearted elite only because they are blind.

Two. I was being whiny in my ways and expected to not draw up sharpened sword.

I have denoted this changed my name to

Wrath.And.Redemption.N.I.G.

I'm not out.

I'm more in then ever.

If I deal with rebutted coldly, know that what I say is now from....

WAR NIG.

Change doesn't occur without sacrifice and Peace doesn't come without war.

The whole Bible teaches this!

Please forgive me friends for failing.

Please know loved enemies that I am taking my kid gloves off.

I wield a sword of grace, but wrath is in its edge.

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[Crucible]

It would appear that permission for you to post on ECT is by the skin of you chinny chin chin.

According to Tambora, who is a liar.

If you think you look less foolish depending on them, then you're an even bigger fool :rotfl:

Nope.

It is, that is why it's called the Reformed tradition.

You're Darbyism came straight out of 19th century heresy- you have nothing to do with Protestantism

 

[WrathAndRdmpt.NIG]

No. Man being "pieces of divinity" with "the divine spark of divinity for life" is Kabbalah, as are other things said by NIG.



That isn't creation. It's life and death. And it's regarding what one brings forth out of oneself.

PPS,

My reference to pieces of Infinity is in reference to God breathing life into us intimately.

That was transferred to Eve in Physical form through Adams Rib.

God Spiritually provided Life to Adam and that "spark" was physically transferred to Eve through Adams Rib.

Adam is a spiritual example of God our Groom..... Hence Jesus is the second Adam.

Eve is the Spiritual example of physical mankind. Hence the bride.

This is why the Bride is shown deceived by the serpent and not Adam.

The act of two being one flesh is a physical example of God the Groom Spiritually becoming one flesh with His bride.

The Love child of Spiritual Oneness with God and Mankind is Jesus.

The pieces of infinity reference is a reference that God spiritually imparted life to us in a different way than to the animals.

Also, God shows us an example of His divine spark through us in the ability to create life through conception. That's not Kaballah, it's God blessing us with a way to create in a physical sense, though it is His design and Spiritual power that allows it.

Call it whatever you want, but it is recognition that we are imparted with Gods breath. Go where you want with that.

In short, it's a way of saying that we are specially sustained by God and Loved differently than all of creation.

You are so eager to disprove what I say with your Greek and Manmade theological terms, that you fail to see what I am trying to say.

And as for my self studied information being useless to you, I would rather be intimately growing in knowEdge through Christ, then be a master of stale air that has been breathed and rebreathed by millions of men that fail to glean authority from the AUTHORITY of scripture.

Yup, that's right, your labels are worth a velvet painting to me.

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[WrathAndRdmpt.NIG]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

According to Tambora, who is a liar.

If you think you look less foolish depending on them, then you're an even bigger fool :rotfl:



It is, that is why it's called the Reformed tradition.

You're Darbyism came straight out of 19th century heresy- you have nothing to do with Protestantism

Surprise Crucible,

Reformed traditions of the Jews led to the rejection of Jesus.

And about Tambora,

Tambora professes Jesus as their Lord and savior. The Liar is the one that denies Christ is from the Father and the Son of God.

Liar is a term I've often wanted to throw your way, but decided to leave alone, because you are my sibling in humanity, which Jesus died for. So, whatever Crucie.


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[WrathAndRdmpt.NIG]

According to Tambora, who is a liar.

If you think you look less foolish depending on them, then you're an even bigger fool :rotfl:



It is, that is why it's called the Reformed tradition.

You're Darbyism came straight out of 19th century heresy- you have nothing to do with Protestantism

One more thing,

Darby is most known for dissection of elected times of God.

Most noteworthy would be the rapture and pre-trib ideas.

I could care less about either.

I only relate to what is in each of my days as Christ commanded.

Get a clue.


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[Crucible]

Surprise Crucible,

Reformed traditions of the Jews led to the rejection of Jesus.

And about Tambora,

Tambora professes Jesus as their Lord and savior. The Liar is the one that denies Christ is from the Father and the Son of God.

Liar is a term I've often wanted to throw your way, but decided to leave alone, because you are my sibling in humanity, which Jesus died for. So, whatever Crucie.

You're new around here so I'm going to fill you in on a few things. First off, Calvinism is the fruit of the Reformation- it is the original non-Catholic approach to Christianity. All traditional belief in Protestant ideology ultimately stems from it.

In the real world, you won't see many churches taking issue with the Reformed tradition save Catholicism. The people on here took a liking to bashing Calvinism not by default, but because there was a time on this site when Reformed Christians came and challenged their Darbyism.

They do not like that term, Darbyism, because it is a key reminder that a lot of their notions didn't come from orthodox Christianity.

Secondly, Tambora is among a few on here who took to taking the mods side on their beliefs to give themselves brownie points on here- what they say is not what is really true, it is just them pandering to popular bias. Why do you think I didn't take it seriously- unlike you, who thinks they have found some sort of immunity to Calvinist rebuke :idunno:

And third, when you resort to trying to say that I don't believe Christ is God because you don't agree with my denomination, you're really just defeating yourself- that's called 'bearing false witness' and as such, you'll fit right in with the folk you're getting in with because that's something they profess in

 

[WrathAndRdmpt.NIG]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

You're new around here so I'm going to fill you in on a few things. First off, Calvinism is the fruit of the Reformation- it is the original non-Catholic approach to Christianity. All traditional belief in Protestant ideology ultimately stems from it.

In the real world, you won't see many churches taking issue with the Reformed tradition save Catholicism. The people on here took a liking to bashing Calvinism not by default, but because there was a time on this site when Reformed Christians came and challenged their Darbyism.

They do not like that term, Darbyism, because it is a key reminder that a lot of their notions didn't come from orthodox Christianity.

Secondly, Tambora is among a few on here who took to taking the mods side on their beliefs to give themselves brownie points on here- what they say is not what is really true, it is just them pandering to popular bias. Why do you think I didn't take it seriously- unlike you, who thinks they have found some sort of immunity to Calvinist rebuke :idunno:

And third, when you resort to trying to say that I don't believe Christ is God because you don't agree with my denomination, you really just make yourself look like a blabbering fool- that's called 'bearing false witness' and as such, you'll fit right in with the foolish folk you're getting in with

I never said you didn't believe Christ is God. I said that the word liar is only biblically a reference to such. Thus, I was pointing out what a disgrace it was that you chose to use it.

Firstly, the church in brick is sick! It's Love has grown cold and the more I learn about what Calvinism does to the delivery of the gospel, I have become certain that we have defined a major cause.

Secondly, Your bashing Tam is only a show that Tam is a person that doesn't yield to mob rule.

Thirdly, just because I'm new here doesn't mean I new to Jesus.

Lastly, I would make piece with you, but Calvinism won't let you. Who is your God Crucible? Calvin might as well be called a prophet the way everyone that is under his spell displays their following.

I believe you love Jesus, but your demeanor shows that you might trust Calvin a little more than Jesus.




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[Sherman]

Who are you?

If you read the badge on my post bit I am one of the mods on here. I have been doing it for a couple of years.

Are you genuinely saying this without reading through every word of this thread?

I dutifully declare that I am not a Christian.

I have read through much of this thread and the ECT is for sincere inquiry or for debates between groups of Christians. This thread does not meet either of those requirements. The ECT is not the place for a non-Christian to come in and brow beat of group of Christians for a doctrine that they hold. There is the religion forum for that purpose. Nuff said.

 

[WrathAndRdmpt.NIG]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

If you read the badge on my post bit I am one of the mods on here. I have been doing it for a couple of years.



I have read through much of this thread and the ECT is for sincere inquiry or for debates between groups of Christians. This thread does not meet either of those requirements. The ECT is not the place for a non-Christian to come in and brow beat of group of Christians for a doctrine that they hold. There is the religion forum for that purpose. Nuff said.

Sherman,

Are you saying I don't follow Jesus? No you are not. I read further into your context.

What is your light of Sonnets heart that You believe he hasn't elected Jesus as his savior and doesn't trust the provision of the counselor?

What judgment are you using?

Is a Christian always a follower of Christ?

Was Jesus message a message of exclusion?

Have you noted that your Reformed theology group fight and hack one another and everyone else on a consistent basis.

I don't come here to get moderator merit badges.

Your just a human being.

Jesus is greater, and He has been the underlining premise of the challenge to the doctrine of Reprobation.


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[PneumaPsucheSoma]

PPS,

My reference to pieces of Infinity is in reference to God breathing life into us intimately.

That was transferred to Eve in Physical form through Adams Rib.

God Spiritually provided Life to Adam and that "spark" was physically transferred to Eve through Adams Rib.

Adam is a spiritual example of God our Groom..... Hence Jesus is the second Adam.

Eve is the Spiritual example of physical mankind. Hence the bride.

This is why the Bride is shown deceived by the serpent and not Adam.

The act of two being one flesh is a physical example of God the Groom Spiritually becoming one flesh with His bride.

The Love child of Spiritual Oneness with God and Mankind is Jesus.

The pieces of infinity reference is a reference that God spiritually imparted life to us in a different way than to the animals.

Also, God shows us an example of His divine spark through us in the ability to create life through conception. That's not Kaballah, it's God blessing us with a way to create in a physical sense, though it is His design and Spiritual power that allows it.

Call it whatever you want, but it is recognition that we are imparted with Gods breath. Go where you want with that.

In short, it's a way of saying that we are specially sustained by God and Loved differently than all of creation.

You are so eager to disprove what I say with your Greek and Manmade theological terms, that you fail to see what I am trying to say.

And as for my self studied information being useless to you, I would rather be intimately growing in knowEdge through Christ, then be a master of stale air that has been breathed and rebreathed by millions of men that fail to glean authority from the AUTHORITY of scripture.

Yup, that's right, your labels are worth a velvet painting to me.

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And I don't care about your false autonomous innovations and renovation of the Faith by falsely representing it with concepts of your own that are syncretic with other ancient occultic religions.

Mine are not man-made theological terms. They are Greek terms from the inspired text, and lexicography of the same.

It is yours who are man-made theological terms.

And BTW... Theological is based on Theos. It's "God-ology". So it's not man-made. Your rambling self-determined words are the false and man-made, not God-given.

Nice try. You shoulda just left TOL as you said. Now you just keep punking yourself out in ignorance and arrogance.

 

[Cross Reference]

So there you have it , Sherman. Who is beating up on who? I ask that with regards to Sonnet as well. He asked questions and in reply to the religious non-answers he received, was compelled to keep asking only now to receive the some-o-same-o nondiscript reform pat answers but with accusations added purposed to save face for their willful ignorance.

 

[Tambora]

Secondly, Tambora is among a few on here who took to taking the mods side on their beliefs to give themselves brownie points on here- what they say is not what is really true, it is just them pandering to popular bias.

ROFL!
More stupid lies.

 

[Eagles Wings]

And I don't care about your false autonomous innovations and renovation of the Faith by falsely representing it with concepts of your own that are syncretic with other ancient occultic religions.

Mine are not man-made theological terms. They are Greek terms from the inspired text, and lexicography of the same.

It is yours who are man-made theological terms.

And BTW... Theological is based on Theos. It's "God-ology". So it's not man-made. Your rambling self-determined words are the false and man-made, not God-given.

Nice try. You shoulda just left TOL as you said. Now you just keep punking yourself out in ignorance and arrogance.

You hit the nail on the head earlier with Theosophy. I've known theosophists through the Waldorf schools, whose hero is Rudolph Steiner. They claim to be Christian. It is basically a society that accepts any and all belief, whether atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, etc. I say without a doubt that, the Spirit of Christ, kept me away from this heresy, as it is subtle and means to entice with talk of unity among mankind. Nothing but New Age anti-Christ. I also found them to be exceptionally well-read in Scripture.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

I know what you meant.

But yer not even near ready for a sword fight.

Jefe: I have put many beautiful pinatas in the storeroom, each of them filled with little suprises.
El Guapo: Many pinatas?
Jefe: Oh yes, many!
El Guapo: Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
Jefe: A what?
El Guapo: A *plethora*.
Jefe: Oh yes, you have a plethora.
El Guapo: Jefe, what is a plethora?
Jefe: Why, El Guapo?
El Guapo: Well, you told me I have a plethora. And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has *no idea* what it means to have a plethora.
Jefe: Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

And I don't care about your false autonomous innovations and renovation of the Faith by falsely representing it with concepts of your own that are syncretic with other ancient occultic religions.

Mine are not man-made theological terms. They are Greek terms from the inspired text, and lexicography of the same.

It is yours who are man-made theological terms.

And BTW... Theological is based on Theos. It's "God-ology". So it's not man-made. Your rambling self-determined words are the false and man-made, not God-given.

Nice try. You shoulda just left TOL as you said. Now you just keep punking yourself out in ignorance and arrogance.

PPS,

Theology = Man's understanding of God

Jesus = God revealing Himself as the Supremacy of Theology


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[heir]

Jefe: I have put many beautiful pinatas in the storeroom, each of them filled with little suprises.
El Guapo: Many pinatas?
Jefe: Oh yes, many!
El Guapo: Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
Jefe: A what?
El Guapo: A *plethora*.
Jefe: Oh yes, you have a plethora.
El Guapo: Jefe, what is a plethora?
Jefe: Why, El Guapo?
El Guapo: Well, you told me I have a plethora. And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has *no idea* what it means to have a plethora.
Jefe: Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?


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:rotfl: I love that movie!

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

You hit the nail on the head earlier with Theosophy. I've known theosophists through the Waldorf schools, whose hero is Rudolph Steiner. They claim to be Christian. It is basically a society that accepts any and all belief, whether atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, etc. I say without a doubt that, the Spirit of Christ, kept me away from this heresy, as it is subtle and means to entice with talk of unity among mankind. Nothing but New Age anti-Christ. I also found them to be exceptionally well-read in Scripture.

Did you check with Calvin before you said that?

Is your daddy ok with what you are saying?


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[Sherman]

Sherman,

Are you saying I don't follow Jesus? No you are not. I read further into your context.

The thread was opened by Sonnet who went on to deny that he was a Christian.

TOL as a forum does not support Calvinism. That being said. Christianity comes in many different flavors. The doctrines of some Christian sects can be distasteful.

The ECT is intended as board for sincere inquiry and debates between Christians. Sonnet excluded himself when he denied being a Christian then then went on to brow beat the Calvinists for their doctrine. Had it been one of the Open Theists that opened the thread, I would not have moved it. Note I did not remove your thread.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

The doctrine of unconditional election and reprobation would seem to be the most awful case of discrimination we as humans could ever conceive of. God predetermines who will be saved and who will be passed by and Man has absolutely no say in the matter. It's dreadfulness needs no further explanation.

However, by focusing absolutely on the depravity of man then the Calvinist appears to extricate the doctrine from such a charge. "The man deserves nothing," he retorts - that God determined to save anyone is something that we should be grateful for they say.

Seemingly, the doctrine is thus extricated.

But here's the rub:

Romans 10:1-13
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Paul holds out the offer of salvation to his kinsman through belief. Only a disingenuous person would speak so whilst holding to the doctrine of reprobation.

I hereby challenge any Calvinist to explain why they yet remain believing such a doctrine despite Paul's words.

Sonnet,

To answer your question directly:

The basic meat of the doctrine comes from the verbiage that God "turned them over to their own reprobate minds"

This seems to be a reference to super sinful sinners.

But when pairing this with Jesus teaching that Belief, Faith and Hope in Him are the only way to hear His voice, this idea flips on its own head.

The direct references to temple prostitution in scripture are OT and NT. Consider Paul urging a congregation to not join itself to a prostitute.

This rhetoric is ignored again in light of another topic, I won't bring up here, because it would be a hot button, on top of a hot button.

In actual light, the reprobate mind appears to be one that has the gospel and trades it for another that brings life back to the stone covenant. Another deviation could be leaning on teachings of man to understand scripture instead of leaning on Jesus. Also, it could be someone who is hateful and disrupts the simple unity that should exist as soon as someone professes Jesus as their Lord, Savior and example of Unconditional Love.

1 John has a lot to say about the Love thing.


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[Crucible]

I never said you didn't believe Christ is God. I said that the word liar is only biblically a reference to such. Thus, I was pointing out what a disgrace it was that you chose to use it.

Firstly, the church in brick is sick! It's Love has grown cold and the more I learn about what Calvinism does to the delivery of the gospel, I have become certain that we have defined a major cause.

Secondly, Your bashing Tam is only a show that Tam is a person that doesn't yield to mob rule.

Thirdly, just because I'm new here doesn't mean I new to Jesus.

Lastly, I would make piece with you, but Calvinism won't let you. Who is your God Crucible? Calvin might as well be called a prophet the way everyone that is under his spell displays their following.

I believe you love Jesus, but your demeanor shows that you might trust Calvin a little more than Jesus.




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It wasn't just Calvin. John simply had the high seat among the rest, to a point where he was dubbed the 'Pope of Geneva'. Many people even put him above Martin Luther, who was the very first in his time to speak against the Roman Church.
The Diet of Worms is where it really began- the cutoff between Luther and the rest of the reformists from the Catholic Church.

The reason Calvin took the cake is because of Luther's unwillingness to do away with certain Catholic doctrine, which the rest of the reformers saw was required to necessitate predestinarian theology. The way it was seen, was that if you took away sovereign election, you took away justification to break communion with the Pope.

And Luther stayed on the fence, being half protestant and half catholic. That is why today the Lutheran churches are barely protestant at all despite being a mother church of the Reformation.

Calvin wasn't the only author of Calvinist ideology, he was the authority of it. It was something all the reformists were in on. Now if you're wondering where Arminians came from- it is actually very simple: Arminius was a student of Calvin's, and he condemned Calvin on hinging to Saint Augustine's theology (which was heavily predestinarian), calling it Stoic paganism.

And if you're wondering where Methodism came from, who hold to free will and which are the contrary, inverted church to the Presbyterians, that is simple as well: they broke communion with the English Church in the 1700's.


So there you have it, in a nutshell lain:
Maybe now you can see why Reformed Christians take offense- it is because virtually all these people ran off with Calvinist notions and revised them to their liking- and then have the nerve to come back around calling us the heretics.

What a ridiculous thing that is!
So you may want to check your demeanor.