some other dude
New member
and barbie demonstrates exactly what Tom was saying. :chuckle:
Real Science Friday: A Leading Telescope Designer in Studio
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
(Jefferson touts a telescope maker as endorsing creationism)
Stipe remarks:
I don't believe Jefferson is an atheist. But I do believe he'd be smarter to actually look and see stars forming today, than to simply accept the word of one man.
Stipe remarks:
I don't believe Jefferson is an atheist. But I do believe he'd be smarter to actually look and see stars forming today, than to simply accept the word of one man.
some other dude
New member
Where would he look, barbie, to see stars forming today?
And just how desperate are you to score points that you think one man's opinion constitutes a popularity contest? :kookoo:
He's still fuming over that one, eh? It's been, what, three days? :chuckle:
Stipe admits:
Atheists are often curious as to what belief would make one not a Christian.
Atheists are often curious as to what belief would make one not a Christian.
some other dude
New member
barbie said:
barbie said:
I believe we just saw barbie admit that he's an athiest.
Not that he's been fooling anybody.
Stipe question, Stipe answer.
Barbarian, how come you did not "chuckle"?
James said, “Even the demons believe [in Jesus] and tremble” (James 2:19). Barbarian, you are not saved. I once asked you where you would go if you died in the middle of your post. Your answer was that you weren’t quite sure and that you would “probably go to Purgatory.” This is how I know with certainty that if you die right now, you are going to hell.
If you don’t know you’re going to heaven, you are not going. You believe in Jesus, but you refuse to accept His sacrifice for you. This is like believing you have a parachute under your seat but refuse to put it on. “I don’t need a parachute. I’ll just flap my arms real fast.”
When you refuse Paul’s gospel of uncircumcision (Romans 10:9-10), you refuse God’s free gift of grace. You are in essence saying I don’t want to be saved by grace; I’m will do good works and pay for my own salvation. Such is life in the Catholic Church under the Apostle Peter and the law. You are never quite sure if you are saved. But if you confess your sins every week, receive communion, get baptized, get confirmed, do the stations of the cross, bless yourself with holy water entering and leaving the church, kneel when told, stand when told, sit when told, get ashes on your forehead on Ash Wednesday, get the palms on Palm Sunday, attend mass regularly (and middle of week is better yet), tithe, pray, say ten hail mary’s and five our father’s, say the Rosary, pray to Mary (and don’t forget the saints), light a candle for a loved one, pay the priest to pray your uncle out of Purgatory, don’t eat meat on Friday, you will “probably go to Purgatory.” But, don’t read your Bible, especially Paul. Now this was life for me when I was a Catholic more than a half-century ago. All of our priests were from Ireland for some reason. I asked one of these priests if we were going to Heaven. With his Irish accent he answered, “Saints perserve us, Tom. Who would be knowin'.”
What’s really sad is that Peter is not your apostle. Israel (Peter included) was cut off for unbelief. Their program is on hold. Your apostle is Paul, “the apostle to the Gentiles.” To know with certainty that you are saved, all you have to do is “confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Rom. 10:9). Paul could not make it plainer here if he used crayon for you.
Now I doubt that your worldview will allow you to accept this simple truth. If your worldview is irrational, arbitrary, and illogical then your view of reality will always be distorted. Because your worldview is not based on God and His word, you can reach truth only by accident. And then you can’t really know if what you have found is true.
Instead of believing in Genesis, you buy into the Big Bang. But God created the heavens and the earth on the first day and He did not create the stars until day four and not with a Big Bang on day one. Stars do not create themselves. God created them (Psalm 8:3). God counted and numbered them (Psalm 147:4). He has given them names (147:4).
“Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things, who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name… not one is missing” (Isa. 40:26). But we are going to have to rewrite this: “…He has to keep making up names for new ones that are forming because Barbarian refuses to let God rest on the seventh day.” Barbarian, in Texas, we even give illegals a water break!
Even though it is literally impossible to have a local flood rise above a mountain, you deny the global Flood. Even though Jesus affirmed that in the beginning He created them male and female, you call Him a liar. Even though God said that all humans on earth are descended from Noah and his family, they are not descended from Noah because Barbarian says so. Even though God says that “in Adam all died,” all did not die in Adam. And even though God says that salvation is a free gift from Him, Barbarian wants to work and pay for his salvation. See where a wrong worldview will lead you?
Tom
Last edited:
And he writes:
James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
But cafeteria Christian that you are, you pick out only the parts you like.
The good news for Barbarian is that Jesus will chose who is saved according to their works, as He says in Matthew. He won't be consulting Tom for his opinion.
Sorry, you new religion is of no consequence to God, Tom.
The fact that you only accept the part of His word that appeals to you makes it clear who won't accept His sacrifice. I accept all of it. And you take only the parts you want to believe.
I don't have a choice. Faith is not all that's required, as James says. So I have to do it God's way, not Tom's way.
But that's not what the Bible actually says, is it? You've tried to change it into a literal history, something Christians have always known to be wrong.
He's still doing it. We have pictures. You're just displeased with Him concerning the way He does it.
As you learned, the Bible does not say there was a global flood. You invented that to fit your new religion.
In Genesis, God says what was there at the beginning, and male and female were not there. Jesus means from the beginning of the human race, not the beginning of creation. Again, you reject God's word in Genesis to fit your new religion.
It says that all humans are descended from Noah? Show me.
You don't think so? Another odd feature of your new religion.
You have twisted what God is telling you. He says one is justified by faith and works both. But you could not be saved without the grace of God and the death and resurrection of His Son.
Faith and works are what God expects you to do, to accept Him.
You're a living demonstration of that, Tom.
Put aside your pride, and take it God's way, instead of Tom's way.
Barbarian,
James says that we must add works to grace. Paul says you are saved by faith with no works. Now both of them are correct because James is following Jesus Christ under the Gospel of Circumcision and Paul is following Jesus under the Gospel of unCircumcision (Gal. 2:7-9).
But, can you follow both at the same time?
TeeJay
some other dude
New member
barbie doesn't understand that Tom. He doesn't read the Bible. He only knows what he's told by CatholicAnswers.
No. That's your revision to God's word. He says:
James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
No, that's also your revision:
Romans 3:28 For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.
Paul is saying that the works of the law, by which the Pharisees tried to be pure enough by following the Mosaic law, is not what saves.
Jesus makes it clear in Matthew:
And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty.
32And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
36Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.
37Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee?
39Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee?
40And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
41Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink.
43I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.
44Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?
45Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
46And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
You rejected Jesus and His words, because He's telling you something you don't want to hear. Your works will determine whether you spend eternity with Him, or with the devil and his angels. Before it's too late, get with Him. BTW, you were going to show me where it says that all humans on Earth today are descended from Noah.
When do you think you're going to be able to do that?
Barbarian,
You can't possibly be doing works because you are on ToL 24/7. How many people have you gotten saved? If none, then Jesus said, "Any tree that does not produce fruit will be cast into the fire." Such is life under the gospel of circumcision. Please, enlighten us as to your fruit production.
The atheists on ToL love you. And you are loving them back right into hell. Why? Because you agree with them. Jesus said to beware when the world loves you. Actually, they should hate you. And Jesus said that if you are not for Me, you are against Me. And if you do not gather, you scatter.
You would probably get a standing O on Oprah.
TeeJay
You can't possibly be doing works because you are on ToL 24/7. How many people have you gotten saved? If none, then Jesus said, "Any tree that does not produce fruit will be cast into the fire." Such is life under the gospel of circumcision. Please, enlighten us as to your fruit production.
The atheists on ToL love you. And you are loving them back right into hell. Why? Because you agree with them. Jesus said to beware when the world loves you. Actually, they should hate you. And Jesus said that if you are not for Me, you are against Me. And if you do not gather, you scatter.
You would probably get a standing O on Oprah.
TeeJay
Well, there's time to do things. And it's not always time. I noticed a kid with a backpack that was held together with safety pins. Couple of us bought him one, gave it to the school receptionist, and she told him she had an extra one he could have. Stuff like that. You should try to do small things every day.
Not just the big stuff like visiting nursing homes or working for the food pantry. It's a way of life, Tom, not something you do to get something. What you're doing is conditioning your soul to do it without thinking about it. That's when you start to become an imitation of Christ. Asking me to catalogue what I do, shows you don't understand. You see, in telling you about the backpack, I already got my reward here. When you do for others without thinking of your reward, then you're on the right track, Tom.
And if you don't, you aren't going with Him.
About every other year on the net, someone tells me that I convinced them that Christians have gotten a bad rap, and sometimes, they become believers. I don't keep notches, but some of the notes they've sent me are among my fondest possessions. I have a couple from people here.
And it's not just atheists and agnostics; I'd say that there are about four former YE creationists out there who have come to fully accept God and His creation because of me. Not bad.
Most of the positive rep I get is from theists, but because I'm a Christian, I treat atheists and people of other religions with respect as well. Long as they are respectful and decent here, I treat them that way. And being an orthodox Christian, I know that they aren't necessarily going to hell, so I don't feel the need to be aggressive to get them to believe as I do. Faith should be a net, not a sharp stick.
You know, Tom, you have more in common with atheists than I do. I believe all of Scripture. They don't believe any of it. And you believe only parts of it.
Instead of gathering, you have whittled your faith down into a sharp stick to poke at unbelievers and Christians alike.
Barbarian, Jesus sacrifice on the Cross is a free gift that you can't possibly pay for not even if you bought backpacks for every child on Planet Earth.
If you volunteer at a food pantry, you are violating Paul's admonition: "He who does not work should not eat." Hunger is a great motivation to work. But you, as a nicer than God person, takes away that motivation.
And if you don't, you aren't going with Him.
How in the world can you lead someone to Christ when you are unsaved yourself. Jesus spoke of you: "They are the blind leading the blind. Both shall stumble and fall in the ditch." Please, Barbarian, don't witness to anyone.
If you are leading any YE's to disbelieve in Genesis, then you will answer to God for it on judgment day. And you will be judged because you don't know if you are saved. If you don't know you are saved, you are not saved. You are going to hell to await judgment at the Great White Throne. And it gets worse. I will be your judge.
You are not a Christian. Anyone who has not made a confession of faith in accordance with Romans 10:9-10 is going to hell. And if you were a Christian and knew the truth, you would tell them the truth that they are going to hell.
Jesus said to count it a blessing when the world hates you.
Jesus did not make know it all's comfortable. I don't either.
Tom