Psalm 72 - The Coming New World Order Soon to be Established on Earth

[Right Divider]

:rotfl:


It most certainly is.

It most certainly is NOT. So there!

 

[Apple7]

It most certainly is NOT. So there!

And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy are You to receive the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood purchased us to God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and made us to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and we shall reign over the earth. (Rev 5.9 – 10)

Rev 5 informs the reader that it was Jesus’ blood, from His death upon The Cross, which purchased us to God.

Thus, a transaction took place at The Cross. The Greek informs us that a transfer in ownership occurred, where we became Jesus’ possession.

So, from whom did Jesus ‘purchase’ us from?

He purchased us from Satan.

Satan was bound at The Cross.

It was Jesus’ death upon The Cross that transferred our ownership from Satan to that of God.

When Satan was bound, we became Jesus’ property; we were also given a kingdom, earth, in which to reign and rule over, with Christ.

This fact is doubly confirmed in Rev 20.2 – 3, in which Satan is first bound, and then, immediately afterward, Rev 20.4 declares the reigning with Christ.

The period of time that we have to reign on earth (Rev 20.4), is the same time in which Satan is bound (Rev 20.2).

Like many things mentioned in the Book of Revelation, time passage is also recorded with varying epithets.

The ‘1,000 year reign’ of Christ/with Christ (i.e. The First Resurrection) is the period of time commencing from the binding of Satan at the Cross until the final return of Christ. During this period of time, Satan is rendered impotent as far as possessing people – other than that of his demons, which are freely roaming.

Likewise, during this same period of time, mankind is allowed to populate the planet, spread the Gospel, and allow time for The Righteous to come to Christ.

This is what is known as our 1K earthly reign with Christ – we are in it right now.

The ‘1,000 years’ (Rev 20.2 – 7) is also referred to as ‘1260 days of prophecy’ (Rev 11.3); ‘1260 days of nourishment’ (Rev 12.6); ‘time, and times and half a time of nourishment’ (Rev 12.14); and ‘42 months’ (Rev 11.2; 13.5).

The important thing to remember is that numbers mark a time period in which events transpire....but not an exact time period that matches the number.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7 and Greetings Right Divider,

:rotfl: No, this is NOT the millennium.

:rotfl: It most certainly is.

It most certainly is NOT. So there!

Apple7, there is not much for me to answer in your other three posts, but the above shows the wide range of views concerning the Kingdom of God and the millennium. The Scriptures I quoted speak for themselves, but judging by your methods and logic I most probably would be surprised at your exposition of these verses.

In my younger days I heard the comment that there were differing opinions in the Baptist Church concerning the second coming of Jesus and what is represented by the phrase “the Kingdom of God”. I do not know the exact meaning of the phrase the Evangelical movement, but I imagine that it comprises a large portion of Baptists today, but please help me to define this movement if I am wrong. Anyway, my impression is that even amongst the Evangelicals there are many views. It is suggested that some Evangelicals are strong supporters of Israel and back the Israelis taking over in Jerusalem and in the West Bank. Others believe in the present earth being burnt up and replaced by a new heaven and earth at Christ’s coming. Others have various versions of dispensationalism. Others are futurists and many other categories, and Apple7 most probably has a unique version based upon his logic and methods. Some believe in a rapture, others do not.

I attended an advertised Baptist lecture, and the subject advertised was the second coming of Christ. I arrived 10 minutes early, and the whole congregation singing was already underway. I was positioned in the aisle, in an extra chair much higher than the normal seating. I was without a hymn book and the two Baptists in the pew next to me did not share. This went on for another 45 minutes, and then a fiery red-headed pastor preached that if you didn’t repent then you would be burnt in hell. As he proceeded his face got redder and redder, until he then called for the repentant sinners to come forward. Two ladies stepped to the front, and the Baptist next to me muttered “not her again”. Then there was another 20 minutes of singing, and at the end everyone looked very happy. I did not determine what would happen at the return of Jesus, as the only message that I heard was that you will go to hell at death.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy are You to receive the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood purchased us to God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and made us to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and we shall reign over the earth. (Rev 5.9 – 10)

Rev 5 informs the reader that it was Jesus’ blood, from His death upon The Cross, which purchased us to God.

Thus, a transaction took place at The Cross. The Greek informs us that a transfer in ownership occurred, where we became Jesus’ possession.

So, from whom did Jesus ‘purchase’ us from?

He purchased us from Satan.

Satan was bound at The Cross.

It was Jesus’ death upon The Cross that transferred our ownership from Satan to that of God.

When Satan was bound, we became Jesus’ property; we were also given a kingdom, earth, in which to reign and rule over, with Christ.

This fact is doubly confirmed in Rev 20.2 – 3, in which Satan is first bound, and then, immediately afterward, Rev 20.4 declares the reigning with Christ.

The period of time that we have to reign on earth (Rev 20.4), is the same time in which Satan is bound (Rev 20.2).

Like many things mentioned in the Book of Revelation, time passage is also recorded with varying epithets.

The ‘1,000 year reign’ of Christ/with Christ (i.e. The First Resurrection) is the period of time commencing from the binding of Satan at the Cross until the final return of Christ. During this period of time, Satan is rendered impotent as far as possessing people – other than that of his demons, which are freely roaming.

Likewise, during this same period of time, mankind is allowed to populate the planet, spread the Gospel, and allow time for The Righteous to come to Christ.

This is what is known as our 1K earthly reign with Christ – we are in it right now.

The ‘1,000 years’ (Rev 20.2 – 7) is also referred to as ‘1260 days of prophecy’ (Rev 11.3); ‘1260 days of nourishment’ (Rev 12.6); ‘time, and times and half a time of nourishment’ (Rev 12.14); and ‘42 months’ (Rev 11.2; 13.5).

The important thing to remember is that numbers mark a time period in which events transpire....but not an exact time period that matches the number.

Baloney... the 1000 year reign will be.... wait for it.... a 1000 year reign.

Christ will sit on the throne of His glory in Jerusalem just like the Bible says.

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7 and Greetings Right Divider, Apple7, there is not much for me to answer in your other three posts, but the above shows the wide range of views concerning the Kingdom of God and the millennium. The Scriptures I quoted speak for themselves, but judging by your methods and logic I most probably would be surprised at your exposition of these verses.

In my younger days I heard the comment that there were differing opinions in the Baptist Church concerning the second coming of Jesus and what is represented by the phrase “the Kingdom of God”. I do not know the exact meaning of the phrase the Evangelical movement, but I imagine that it comprises a large portion of Baptists today, but please help me to define this movement if I am wrong. Anyway, my impression is that even amongst the Evangelicals there are many views. It is suggested that some Evangelicals are strong supporters of Israel and back the Israelis taking over in Jerusalem and in the West Bank. Others believe in the present earth being burnt up and replaced by a new heaven and earth at Christ’s coming. Others have various versions of dispensationalism. Others are futurists and many other categories, and Apple7 most probably has a unique version based upon his logic and methods. Some believe in a rapture, others do not.

I attended an advertised Baptist lecture, and the subject advertised was the second coming of Christ. I arrived 10 minutes early, and the whole congregation singing was already underway. I was positioned in the aisle, in an extra chair much higher than the normal seating. I was without a hymn book and the two Baptists in the pew next to me did not share. This went on for another 45 minutes, and then a fiery red-headed pastor preached that if you didn’t repent then you would be burnt in hell. As he proceeded his face got redder and redder, until he then called for the repentant sinners to come forward. Two ladies stepped to the front, and the Baptist next to me muttered “not her again”. Then there was another 20 minutes of singing, and at the end everyone looked very happy. I did not determine what would happen at the return of Jesus, as the only message that I heard was that you will go to hell at death.

Kind regards
Trevor

Talk to scripture.

 

[Apple7]

Baloney... the 1000 year reign will be.... wait for it.... a 1000 year reign.

Christ will sit on the throne of His glory in Jerusalem just like the Bible says.

Talk to scripture.

As if you could...:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

 

[Right Divider]

Talk to scripture.

As if you could...:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I believe the scripture. You've made a fairy tale of out it.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Talk to scripture.

I have given a reasonable coverage of my understanding of the future Kingdom of God on earth for the 1000 years, when our Lord Jesus Christ will reign on the throne of David in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-4, 6:1-3. You have not responded to the OP where I quoted Scripture in full and commented. Also I will repeat what I said in an earlier post, and I suggest that the following is talking to Scripture:
“There are many views on the subject of the Kingdom of God, and you have suggested only one of many, and possibly fairly unique. I believe in the return of Jesus to establish his kingdom upon the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14:1-21. I believe that the promises to David 2 Samuel 7:8-16 involves the restoration and conversion of the nation of Israel Luke 1:32-33. I also believe that the promises to David is an expansion of the promise of the land to Abraham Genesis 13:14-15, and the faithful will inherit this land promise when they are raised from the dead to rule with Christ upon the throne of David Galatians 3:8,16,26-29.”

On the other hand your contribution has been the following:

We are in the 1K earthly reign of Christ right now. Satan was bound at The Cross. You are letting your incorrect interpretation of Rev 20 decide your eschatology.

You were more interested in diverting the thread back to the Trinity, but as far as I am concerned I have also answered your worship concepts and I believe that the following is sufficient answer and summary of your worship thread, that at last look was 217 pages, 3244 posts and 36570 views. The following that I stated is a simple rebuttal of the title of your thread and the claims that you have made in that thread:
“As far as doing obeisance to Jesus the following gives the balanced view that God has exalted Jesus to the position of Lord, and all should bow the knee to him, and this redounds to the glory of God the Father, not the Trinity. You never really answered this in the other thread.
Philippians 2:8-11 (KJV): 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. ”

Thus in this thread if you would like to talk to scripture on the Kingdom of God you could either start by supporting your view of the 1000 years or respond to the numerous scriptures that I have quoted and my brief comments on these scriptures.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

I believe in the return of Jesus to establish his kingdom upon the earth Acts 1:11,...

Kind regards
Trevor

Let's start with this one.

Where does Acts 1.11 ever mention that Jesus will return to establish His Kingdom upon the earth?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Let's start with this one.
Where does Acts 1.11 ever mention that Jesus will return to establish His Kingdom upon the earth?

First of all, I mentioned Acts 1:11 because it teaches that Jesus will return. What I said on two occasions is the following:

I believe in the return of Jesus to establish his kingdom upon the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14:1-21.

I suggest that all of these together teach that Jesus will return to establish His Kingdom upon the earth.

But starting with Acts 1, we can take some steps towards this overall view. Looking at the context:
Acts 1:1–3 (KJV): 1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
One thing to be noted is that during these 40 days, Jesus spoke to the Apostles concerning the Kingdom of God. I do not think we should say that after this instruction that the Apostles did not have a reasonable assessment of what the term “the Kingdom of God” represents, but would also have some understanding of the details.

Their understanding of the subject of the Kingdom of God prompted the following question by the Apostles and the answer by Jesus:
Acts 1:6–8 (KJV): 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I suggest that the question and answer must to some extent be in line with what Jesus had instructed during the 40 days. Jesus does not say, “You have got it all wrong”, but rather he says that it will not happen immediately. Jesus would not at that time restore the kingdom to Israel. I will not force this meaning, but I suggest that Jesus is inferring that at a future time the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

In the above, part of the answer the Apostles were instructed what would happen in the immediate future, they were instructed that the Apostles would preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria and the uttermost part of the world. We only have to consult the rest of the Book of The Acts to understand how the Apostles fulfilled this role.

So it is in this context of Acts 1 that Jesus ascends from their presence, and we have the words of the Angel about the future return of Jesus:
Acts 1:9–11 (KJV): 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Although not spelt out, I suggest that Jesus will return to restore again the Kingdom to Israel, and this is in other words to establish the Kingdom of God on earth. But to reinforce this, or to elaborate we would need to consider Acts 3:19-21 and the other passages, but I will wait for your response on the above.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7,First of all, I mentioned Acts 1:11 because it teaches that Jesus will return. What I said on two occasions is the following: I suggest that all of these together teach that Jesus will return to establish His Kingdom upon the earth.

But starting with Acts 1, we can take some steps towards this overall view. Looking at the context:
Acts 1:1–3 (KJV): 1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
One thing to be noted is that during these 40 days, Jesus spoke to the Apostles concerning the Kingdom of God. I do not think we should say that after this instruction that the Apostles did not have a reasonable assessment of what the term “the Kingdom of God” represents, but would also have some understanding of the details.

Their understanding of the subject of the Kingdom of God prompted the following question by the Apostles and the answer by Jesus:
Acts 1:6–8 (KJV): 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I suggest that the question and answer must to some extent be in line with what Jesus had instructed during the 40 days. Jesus does not say, “You have got it all wrong”, but rather he says that it will not happen immediately. Jesus would not at that time restore the kingdom to Israel. I will not force this meaning, but I suggest that Jesus is inferring that at a future time the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

In the above, part of the answer the Apostles were instructed what would happen in the immediate future, they were instructed that the Apostles would preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria and the uttermost part of the world. We only have to consult the rest of the Book of The Acts to understand how the Apostles fulfilled this role.

So it is in this context of Acts 1 that Jesus ascends from their presence, and we have the words of the Angel about the future return of Jesus:
Acts 1:9–11 (KJV): 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Although not spelt out, I suggest that Jesus will return to restore again the Kingdom to Israel, and this is in other words to establish the Kingdom of God on earth. But to reinforce this, or to elaborate we would need to consider Acts 3:19-21 and the other passages, but I will wait for your response on the above.

Kind regards
Trevor

Absolutely NOTHING in your example of Acts 1.11 even remotely hints at Jesus coming to earth to establish His Kingdom.

Zero.

You have imposed your own end-times view upon this passage.

Likewise, even the context of Acts 1 fails to mention anything regarding an earthly Kingdom.

Again, wishful thinking on your part.

Perhaps you need to review Jesus' very own words...


Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would have fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here. John 18.36


Thus...

Your very first example of Acts 1.11 has been rendered moot.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Absolutely NOTHING in your example of Acts 1.11 even remotely hints at Jesus coming to earth to establish His Kingdom. Zero.
You have imposed your own end-times view upon this passage. Likewise, even the context of Acts 1 fails to mention anything regarding an earthly Kingdom. Again, wishful thinking on your part.
Perhaps you need to review Jesus' very own words...
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would have fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here. John 18.36
Thus... Your very first example of Acts 1.11 has been rendered moot.

I disagree with you completely. I take the words of Jesus in John 18:36 to be speaking of “world” in the sense of this present order of things, not as in the sense of earth compared to heaven. The Kingdom of God is to be the Kingdom of Heaven upon the earth, and it will be of heaven because it will be from or out of heaven.

If we are to explain the Kingdom of God from the gospel records, then I suggest the following two are sufficient:
Luke 1:31-33 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Matthew 19:27-28 (KJV): 27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ”
I suggest that this is the proper basis to understand the question by the Apostles concerning the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel in Acts 1:6, and notice the word “regeneration” as it also links with “restore again” in Acts 1:6.

I will move on to the next quotation in my list, but briefly stop in Acts 2 first. Peter has preached that the tomb was empty and that Jesus had been raised from the dead and exalted to the right hand of God, and he quotes Psalm 110:1 as evidence of this.
Acts 2:29-37 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. ”
The above speaks of the throne of David, and Psalm 110:1 indicates that Jesus will sit at the right hand of God the Father in his Father's throne until a certain period of time, the time when Jesus will sit upon his own throne, the throne of David, and subdue his enemies or foes and make them his footstool. This particular time will start at the return of Jesus from heaven.

Moving on to Acts 3:19-21, we have in these words of Peter some indication of how Peter understood the words of the angel in Acts 1:11 concerning the return of Jesus and also links with the words regeneration of Matthew 19:28 and restore again of Acts 1:6.
Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (or restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. ”
This is how Peter understood the words of Jesus and the Angel. Jesus is to return from heaven, he will stand up from being seated at God’s right hand, and God will send him and he will no longer be in heaven. He is to come to usher in times of refreshing and restoration, and these times are the subject of all his holy prophets. In my list I mentioned a few of these prophets and their prophecies, but I will leave this until you discuss the above.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7, I disagree with you completely. I take the words of Jesus in John 18:36 to be speaking of “world” in the sense of this present order of things, not as in the sense of earth compared to heaven. The Kingdom of God is to be the Kingdom of Heaven upon the earth, and it will be of heaven because it will be from or out of heaven.
Kind regards
Trevor

No, Trev.

You conveniently forgot to even so much as define the very term that you are arguing over.

Let's do it for you, right now...



απεκριθη ιησους η βασιλεια η εμη ουκ εστιν εκ του κοσμου τουτου ει εκ του κοσμου τουτου ην η βασιλεια η εμη οι υπηρεται οι εμοι ηγωνιζοντο αν ινα μη παραδοθω τοις ιουδαιοις νυν δε η βασιλεια η εμη ουκ εστιν εντευθεν


κοσμου = ‘kosmou’

‘kosmou’ definition:

Strong’s #G2889. Genitive singular masculine noun. John 18.36… ‘of this world,’ meaning this earth. ‘Of this world’ i.e. not derived from the world or conditioned by its terms and evaluations, 18.36ab. In the NT, it is never used in the sense ‘order’, and always means ‘world’ in some sense.

References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 867 - 898
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature, 3rd edition (BDAG), Frederick William Danker, pp. 561 - 563
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the New Testament, Warren Baker, based on the lexicons of Edward Robinson & John Parkhurst, pp. 880 - 882


Thus...had you even bothered to look, the lexical definitions, coming from the very best lexicography on the planet, totally disagrees with you....and utterly slaughters your premise.

Now what are you going to do, Trev?

Further, Jesus claims ownership of His Kingdom, of which, is the Kingdom of God, thus making Him God.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Apple7,

No, Trev. You conveniently forgot to even so much as define the very term that you are arguing over. Let's do it for you, right now...
κοσμου = ‘kosmou’. ‘kosmou’ definition:
Strong’s #G2889. Genitive singular masculine noun. John 18.36… ‘of this world,’ meaning this earth. ‘Of this world’ i.e. not derived from the world or conditioned by its terms and evaluations, 18.36ab. In the NT, it is never used in the sense ‘order’, and always means ‘world’ in some sense.[/COLOR]
Thus...had you even bothered to look, the lexical definitions, coming from the very best lexicography on the planet, totally disagrees with you....and utterly slaughters your premise.
Now what are you going to do, Trev? .

I do not see much problem with your definition above. The following is the definition from Enhanced Strongs as the definitions in TDNT and TDNTA are too extensive to quote, but all of these references are not defining the earth compared with heaven.
“2889 κόσμος [kosmos /kos·mos/] n m. Probably from the base of 2865; TDNT 3:868; TDNTA 459; GK 3180; 187 occurrences; AV translates as “world” 186 times, and “adorning” once. 1 an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government. 2 ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, ‘the heavenly hosts’, as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3. 3 the world, the universe. 4 the circle of the earth, the earth. 5 the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race. 6 the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ. 7 world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly. 7A the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ. 8 any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. 8A the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc). 8A of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19.”

The same word Kosmos appears in the following and is translated world. Again this is not talking about the earth.
John 17:11–16 (KJV): 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

And even in the quotation that you were using, Jesus says that His Kingdom was not from hence. In other words it will be from heaven, the Kingdom of heaven upon the earth.
John 18:36 (KJV): Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
His kingdom was not to be derived from the present Jewish world. Yes, he was destined to be the King of the Jews, sitting upon the throne of David, but this was to be a Divine appointment.

Even Pilate’s authority came from above:
John 19:11 (KJV): Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Continuing on with Acts 3:19-21 quoted in my previous post, the return of Jesus would usher in times of refreshment. The following two prophecies have an echo of this term:
2 Samuel 23:1–5 (KJV): 1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. 5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Psalm 72:6–9 (KJV): 6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth. 7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. 8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. 9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
I could have quoted Isaiah 2:1-4 as this was next on my list and I have already quoted both of the above in Posts #1 and #3, but they use this figure of refreshing and show a strong connection with the term “times of refreshing” in Acts 3:19-21. Both passages clearly indicate that the Kingdom of God will be upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings Apple7,
I do not see much problem with your definition above. The following is the definition from Enhanced Strongs as the definitions in TDNT and TDNTA are too extensive to quote, but all of these references are not defining the earth compared with heaven.
“2889 κόσμος [kosmos /kos·mos/] n m. Probably from the base of 2865; TDNT 3:868; TDNTA 459; GK 3180; 187 occurrences; AV translates as “world” 186 times, and “adorning” once. 1 an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government. 2 ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, ‘the heavenly hosts’, as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3. 3 the world, the universe. 4 the circle of the earth, the earth. 5 the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race. 6 the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ. 7 world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly. 7A the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ. 8 any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. 8A the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc). 8A of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19.”

The same word Kosmos appears in the following and is translated world. Again this is not talking about the earth.
John 17:11–16 (KJV): 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

And even in the quotation that you were using, Jesus says that His Kingdom was not from hence. In other words it will be from heaven, the Kingdom of heaven upon the earth.
John 18:36 (KJV): Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
His kingdom was not to be derived from the present Jewish world. Yes, he was destined to be the King of the Jews, sitting upon the throne of David, but this was to be a Divine appointment.

Even Pilate’s authority came from above:
John 19:11 (KJV): Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Continuing on with Acts 3:19-21 quoted in my previous post, the return of Jesus would usher in times of refreshment. The following two prophecies have an echo of this term:
2 Samuel 23:1–5 (KJV): 1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. 5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Psalm 72:6–9 (KJV): 6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth. 7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. 8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. 9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
I could have quoted Isaiah 2:1-4 as this was next on my list and I have already quoted both of the above in Posts #1 and #3, but they use this figure of refreshing and show a strong connection with the term “times of refreshing” in Acts 3:19-21. Both passages clearly indicate that the Kingdom of God will be upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

You are in sheer desperation mode at this point, Trev!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

The lexical definitions that I posted DIRECTLY mention the verse in question, John 18.36, as pertaining to the EARTH, and NOT 'order' as you ignorantly asserted without merit.

Little wonder that you want to totally IGNORE these lexicons in favor of Strong's which does NOT directly address John 18.36, and, instead, provides general possible renderings that you then freely apply at your own jaded discretion!

So...No, trev, you are not fooling anyone but yourself.

Not only is God's Kingdom referred to as Jesus' Kingdom - making Him God, but the lexicons prove that Jesus' Kingdom is NOT going to be established in this earth.

Deal with it...

btw...we are still on your very first example of Acts 1.11....when can you defend it?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

You are in sheer desperation mode at this point, Trev!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
The lexical definitions that I posted DIRECTLY mention the verse in question, John 18.36, as pertaining to the EARTH, and NOT 'order' as you ignorantly asserted without merit.
Little wonder that you want to totally IGNORE these lexicons in favor of Strong's which does NOT directly address John 18.36, and, instead, provides general possible renderings that you then freely apply at your own jaded discretion! So...No, trev, you are not fooling anyone but yourself. Not only is God's Kingdom referred to as Jesus' Kingdom - making Him God, but the lexicons prove that Jesus' Kingdom is NOT going to be established in this earth. Deal with it...

btw your symbols remind me of the third category in Psalm 1:1. Possibly you should only use one symbol, as your usual Trinitarian followers are not endorsing your views on this subject. They may consider that you have not followed the example of Psalm 1:2. You are using the word “world” in the sense of “earth” to prove that the Kingdom of God will not be on the earth. Not many evangelicals endorse your view. Now let us go back to your definition:

‘kosmou’ definition:
Strong’s #G2889. Genitive singular masculine noun. John 18.36… ‘of this world,’ meaning this earth. ‘Of this world’ i.e. not derived from the world or conditioned by its terms and evaluations, 18.36ab. In the NT, it is never used in the sense ‘order’, and always means ‘world’ in some sense

And then you state your references and astound us that TDNT has 31 pages, Danker has 3 pages and Baker has 3 pages defining this word, and yet your conclusion is that “world” means “earth”. It is quite apparent that you were very selective and put too much weight upon one opinion of the interpretation by one authority on John 18:36 and you even seem to ignore the rest of even the portion that you quoted “‘of this world’ i.e. not derived from the world or conditioned by its terms and evaluations”.

You also ignore the way Jesus used the word “world” on the very same day. I quoted John 17:11–16 and I underlined verses 14 and 16, the important verses that helps define Jesus’ use of this word:
John 17:14,16 (KJV): 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Substitute “earth” for “world” in the above and try to make sense of the above: “the earth hath hated them.” It is quite evident that it was the Jewish world that hated Jesus and the Apostles.

btw...we are still on your very first example of Acts 1.11....when can you defend it?

I have considered Acts 1:11 and its context in Acts 1:3 where Jesus taught them concerning the Kingdom of God during the 40 days, then their question and answer that speaks about the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel.

I have now moved on to discuss how Peter understood these elements of Acts 1, including the return of Jesus and the restoration of all things. Acts 3:19-21 claims that the times of refreshing and times of restoration are spoken about in ALL the prophets. I have already quoted two of David’s prophecies, but the following is from the first major prophecy by the first and possibly most important of the writing prophets, Isaiah. The following will be fulfilled during the 1000 year reign of Jesus upon the throne of David in literal Jerusalem, but there is also in this some indication of the transition from a time of actual warfare to a time of peace.
Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
This prophecy is set in contrast to the reign of Uzziah, who was armed to the teeth, and came to rely more upon his military prowess rather than upon God. In contrast Hezekiah in part fulfilled Isaiah 2:1-4. This shadow framework of Isaiah’s day is depicting the contrast between Israel in the land today in contrast with what will happen when Christ returns and establishes his throne in Jerusalem. Israel is now relying on its military prowess rather than in God. The nations will replace their weapons of warfare into agriculture instruments to feed the poor, and will not learn war any more. As the tensions in the world are rising, and each nation is preparing for war, then this opening vision by the prophets, of Jesus subduing and reigning over the nations in peace, is both relevant and necessary, and will calm our distress in the coming times of trouble.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7,btw your symbols remind me of the third category in Psalm 1:1. Possibly you should only use one symbol, as your usual Trinitarian followers are not endorsing your views on this subject. They may consider that you have not followed the example of Psalm 1:2. You are using the word “world” in the sense of “earth” to prove that the Kingdom of God will not be on the earth. Not many evangelicals endorse your view.

Why would I care what others do, or don't do...?

It apparently bothers you enough to write an entire paragraph on it, however.

Now let us go back to your definition:

The definition is not mine.

The definition is from the lexicons.

And then you state your references and astound us that TDNT has 31 pages, Danker has 3 pages and Baker has 3 pages defining this word, and yet your conclusion is that “world” means “earth”. It is quite apparent that you were very selective and put too much weight upon one opinion of the interpretation by one authority on John 18:36 and you even seem to ignore the rest of even the portion that you quoted “‘of this world’ i.e. not derived from the world or conditioned by its terms and evaluations”.

The lexicons which I quoted, DIRECTLY mention, and define, the term κοσμου as used in the verse in question, John 18.36, and have taken all ambiguity out of the equation.

The source you used, Strongs, gave you ZERO specific examples, and, instead, left you to pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey....of which, you tried your very best to do.....but, even now, you realize the futility of your actions, and you have completely abandoned Strongs altogether.

Nice...

 

[Apple7]

You also ignore the way Jesus used the word “world” on the very same day. I quoted John 17:11–16 and I underlined verses 14 and 16, the important verses that helps define Jesus’ use of this word:
John 17:14,16 (KJV): 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Substitute “earth” for “world” in the above and try to make sense of the above: “the earth hath hated them.” It is quite evident that it was the Jewish world that hated Jesus and the Apostles.

Now, look at what you have done...

You actually used a concordance to see where the term in question was used in other parts of scripture.

This is the very thing that you criticized me of doing with another term...as you said that it just muddied the context and you compared it to a syllogism.....but, hey, now that you're doing the same EXACT thing, its OK?

It's commonly called hypocrisy, Trev.

Further, since you have no idea of what you are even doing, first one thing, and then another, changing direction each and every day....you still cannot thwart the meaning of the term κοσμου as used in John 18.36.

 

[Apple7]

I have considered Acts 1:11 and its context in Acts 1:3 where Jesus taught them concerning the Kingdom of God during the 40 days, then their question and answer that speaks about the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel.

Kind regards
Trevor

Which brings us to your very first example, again.

Don't keep trying to gloss over your example, Trev, just because you stole the verse from other like-minded individuals....be prepared to defend it.

Now...

Show us plainly, in the Greek, where Acts 1 mentions the establishment of The Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Or...

Just admit that you cannot defend what you stole....

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Why would I care what others do, or don't do...? It apparently bothers you enough to write an entire paragraph on it, however.

I was just giving my impression of the symbols you used. I imagined that the symbol on the LHS was Apple7, and the two behind you were your supposed supporters. I also imagine that you need some popular support to maintain your position as I assess that you are in some religious position as a Pastor or some other prominent religious position and your support is based upon specialising in the Trinity. While you are on your favourite subject you have support, but whenever you move onto the subject of the Kingdom of God your audience is divided.

The definition is not mine. The definition is from the lexicons. The lexicons which I quoted, DIRECTLY mention, and define, the term κοσμου as used in the verse in question, John 18.36, and have taken all ambiguity out of the equation. The source you used, Strongs, gave you ZERO specific examples, and, instead, left you to pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey....of which, you tried your very best to do.....but, even now, you realize the futility of your actions, and you have completely abandoned Strongs altogether. Nice...

Now, look at what you have done... You actually used a concordance to see where the term in question was used in other parts of scripture. This is the very thing that you criticized me of doing with another term...as you said that it just muddied the context and you compared it to a syllogism.....but, hey, now that you're doing the same EXACT thing, its OK? It's commonly called hypocrisy, Trev. Further, since you have no idea of what you are even doing, first one thing, and then another, changing direction each and every day....you still cannot thwart the meaning of the term κοσμου as used in John 18.36.

I prefer to define it by the way Jesus used the same term on the same day in John 17:11-16 and especially in John 17:14,16. You can always find a commentary or a lexicon that has some bias towards a particular interpretation.

Which brings us to your very first example, again. Don't keep trying to gloss over your example, Trev, just because you stole the verse from other like-minded individuals....be prepared to defend it. Now... Show us plainly, in the Greek, where Acts 1 mentions the establishment of The Kingdom of God upon the earth. Or... Just admit that you cannot defend what you stole....

I have already considered Acts 1. Perhaps you may like to elaborate what is Jesus going to accomplish when he returns to the earth.

Now the next reference on my list is Daniel 2:35,44 but I will defer this until I consider Micah 4. Micah 4:1-3 is almost identical with Isaiah 2:1-4 so I will not repeat it here. I believe that while Isaiah 2:1-4 was spoken and written in the days of Uzziah, Micah 4:1-3 was written and spoken in the days of Hezekiah. In Uzziah’s day Isaiah 2 threatened an impending earthquake, and Zechariah 14:5 informs us that a severe earthquake occurred in Uzziah’s time. On the other hand Micah threatened the removal of Judah from the land, and this was spoken at the time when the King of Assyria was threatening Judah and Jerusalem. We now know the outcome, the elders of Israel repented at Micah’s message and Hezekiah interceded to God and recovered from his sickness and the Angel destroyed the Assyrian host.

But nevertheless the prophecy of Micah stands, that Judah would go into captivity, and sadly they did not repent at a later date and were taken into captivity by Babylon, and repeated their rejection of God in the time of Jesus when they refused to repent at the teaching of the Son of God, and even crucified him. As a result they were taken into captivity by the Romans. Micah not only foretold their captivity, but also their restoration in the future. So after Micah 4:1-3 we have the following, depicting the events leading up to the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth:
Micah 4:4-8 (KJV): 4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. 5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; 7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. 8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.”
This then is an answer to the question by the Apostles concerning the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel in Acts 1:6. The restoration will be in conjunction with the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth, with Jesus sitting upon the throne of David in Jerusalem. Jesus will return from heaven as taught in Acts 1:11 and Acts 3:19-21 and Israel will become the first dominion in the Kingdom of God. Their regathering in the land today is a major sign that these events are soon to occur. Jesus will soon return to establish his kingdom.

Kind regards
Trevor