POST GAME SHOW - Battle Royale III

POST GAME SHOW - Battle Royale III

  • Jerry Shugart

    Votes: 11 42.3%

  • Dee Dee Warren

    Votes: 15 57.7%
  • Total voters
    26
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
If the Lord only wants "some" of the tares removed,why would He not so specificy?

"Let both grow together until the harvest;and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,Gather together first the tares,and bind them in bundles to burn them,but gather the wheat into My barn"(Mt.13:30).

Are the reapers going to gather only a part of the tares based on these words of the Lord?Of course not.This is speaking about the harvest of the field,and not just a part of it.

Why will you not accept the plain words of the Lord,Dee Dee?

Is it because you just do not believe Him.Or perhaps you think that there was an error in translation?Or can it be that you cannot believe anything,even if it directly from the lips of the Lord Jesus,if it conficts with your ideas?

In His grace,--Jerry
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Asked and answered on the link already provided. When are you going to start answering questions?

And if the Holy Spirit did not mean that every single living soul in Judea came out to get baptized by John why didn't He say so with specificity?
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered.....

I suppose the Mayan King Xuectuan paddled over as well?
 
Revelation717

Revelation717

New member
Jerry,

I do not even think you read my post concerning Zech. 12:

Zec:12:8: In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec:12:9: And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec:12:10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

#1 Jerry, is the passage in bold above FUTURE or FULFILLED?

Can you even answer that without dodging and spinning?

FUTURE or FULFILED?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Dee Dee,

Here is the BIG problem for you.The Olivet Discourse was the Lord´s answer in response to the question,"And what shall be the sign of Thy coming,and THE END OF THE AGE?"

And in the parable of the "tares and the wheat" the Lord explains exactly what will happen at "the end of the age".

He says that "the field is the world"(Mt.13:38).

He also says in no uncertain terms that the "tares" are gathered out of His kingdom at the end of the age:

"As,therefore,the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,so shall it be in the end of this age.

"The Son of Man shall send forth His angels,and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND,and them who do iniquity"(Mt.13:40,41).

You keep insisting that it is only the unrighteous Jews who are gathered out of the kingdom,Dee Dee.

Do you think that you are correct and the Lord is in error?

Or do you think that there is a mis-translation?

Dee Dee,if the Lord´s words do not teach that all the tares shall be removed from His kingdom,then His words must have another meaning.

From His words in this parable where do you get the idea that He is only speaking of SOME of the tares being removed from the field?

In His grace,--Jerry
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Asked and answered in the links previously provided and also with some of the verses you now bring up in the debate itself. It is you who have intractable problems with the "end of the age" chronology I have demonstrated, and you have avoided.

And tell us Jer, how can there be death in a future Millenium when death is destroyed at the resurrection? How can satan still be around and kicking when all of Christ's enemies are destroyed at His Final Advent?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
All the families OF THE EARTH...

All the families OF THE EARTH...

Revelation717

I was answering your idea that the "Jerusalem" in Zechariah does not refer to the heavenly Jerusalem.In fact,you did not answer any of the verses I provided that demonstrate that the Jerusalem in these verses refer to the Jerusalem that is on earth:

"And it shall be that whosoever will not come up of all the families OF THE EARTH unto Jerusalem to worship the King,the Lord of hosts,even upon them shall be no rain"(Zech.14:16).

And NO,I do not think that the inhabitants of the Jerusalem that is on earth have mourned for Him:

"And the land shall mourn,every family apart;the family of the house of David apart..."(Zech.12:12).

That has not happened,but the Lord Jeus spoke of a time when that would happen:

"O Jerusalem,Jerusalem...Ye shall not see Me henceforth,till ye shall say,Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord"(Mt.23:37,39).

After He said those words there has never been an occasion when Jerusalem said,"Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord".

But it will happen.And the words of the prophet reveal that there will be a time when the inhabitants of Jerusalem will repent and recognize that the Lord Jesus is indeed their promised Messiah.

And that is when those in Jerusalem will look upon the Lord Jesus and mourn for Him.

Now perhaps you will explain the meaning of Zechariah 14:17,where we read that "all the families of the earth" will go to Jerusalem to worship the King.

How can you possibly believe that this verse is in reference to the "heavenly Jerusalem"?

In His grace,--Jerry
 
Revelation717

Revelation717

New member
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION!

JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION!

I can see now what Dee Dee facedin her debate.

Jerry - could you PLEEEEASE answer the following:

Zec:12:10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

#1 Jerry, is the passage in bold above FUTURE or FULFILLED?

Can you even answer that without dodging and spinning?

FUTURE or FULFILED?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Dee Dee,

Yes,death was destroyed at the resurrection for all those who believe.

But do men still die,both physically and spiritually?

Yes,of course they do!

And let us examine what happens in the future Millenium and see if any of those living during that time do in fact die or not:

"And when the thousand years are ended,Satan shall be loosed out of His prison,and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth...and they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city;AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN,AND DEVOURED THEM"(Rev.20:7-9).

Do you not believe that these men are killed?

And you ask,How can how can Satan still be around and kicking when all of Christ´s enemies are destroyed at His final advent?

First of all,do you not believe the words of John which do describe Satan as being alive and kicking after His final advent?

And secondly,perhaps you do not understand the meaning of "destroy".The word does not always mean to put an end to something.For instance,Satan is said to be "destroyed"(Heb.2:14),but yet Scripture reveals that his existence will not come to an end,but instead he will be "tormented day and night forever and ever"(Rev.20:10).

In some instances the word translated "destroyed" at Heb.2:14 can mean "to render inoperative,unemployed,inactive,inoperative"("Thayer´s Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament").

When the Lord returns at His final advent Satan will be made inoperative by being cast into the bottomless pit(Rev.20:3).But yet He will be loosened at the end of the 1000 years and once again, through his deceit ,men will die.

Now I have answered your question.

Perhaps you will now tell us why we should believe you instead of the Lord when He says that ALL the "unrighteous" in the world will be gathered out of His kingdom at the end of the age.You say that only the "unrighteous" Israelites will be gathered out.

In His grace,--Jerry
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Rev717,

Can´t you read?I said that that event remains in the future.

I quoted the words concerning the "mourning",and I said in no uncertain words--"That has not happened"!!

And now you accuse me of dodging your question.Did you not read my post dated " 09-16-2002 04:52 AM"?

Just look at it,would you?And then tell me I did not answer.

Why would you accuse me of not answering in view of the fact that I did answer?

Would you PLEASSSSE answer why you would falsely accuse me of not answering?

In His grace,--Jerry
 
Last edited:
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
You have not at all answered my points Jer, you have simply assumed what you need to prove. You say, "See there must be death in the future millenium, because the Bible says there is..." The assumption is that it is future. It is not because 1 Cor 15 also says that death is the LAST ENEMY. All other enemies have been destroyed, with death being the final one. Thus, the Millenium cannot occur after the resurrection. Death and satan are cast into the lake of fire at that point. 1 Cor 15 also teaches that this is the end of Messianic Kingdom and not the same event as Daniel 7. Funny you should overlook that.

And I have already answered your question on the link already provided.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Dee Dee,

I did answer all your points.I did not assume anything.I based my answer on the Scriptures,but that isn´t good enough for you.

Just get a load of your pitiful words:

"...you have simply assumed what you need to prove.You say,'See there must be death in the future millenium because the Bible says there is..' "

Now what better source of Divine Truth is there than the Holy Scriptures,Dee Dee?And notice that you accuse me of "assumming" when I quote the words of Scripture.That only shows what you think of the Holy Scriptures.

Just because you base your teaching on the doctrines of men do not expect everyone else to do the same.

Dee Dee,Scripture does state that death is the last enemy.But that means that death has been destroyed for believers.

It remains for unbelievers.

And why do you continue to insist that only the Jews will be gathered out of the Kingdom at the end of the age when the Lord Himself teaches that all the things that oiffend will be taken out of His kingdom.You did not answer that question on the link you provided.All you did on that link was to provide a mis-interpretation of Scripture and say that we should believe that instead of the plain words of the Lord.

Of course you want to discuss ANYTHING but the Lord´s words in regard to what will happen at the end of the age.

In His grace,--Jerry
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Asked and answered. If you can't see the huge assumption you made in your post you are beyond reason.

I am at work and have others things to do and have a ministry meeting tonight. I will thrash you more when I have more time. You really are a glutton for punishment.
 
J

JackS

New member
Tis a very sad day when a debate between Christians is ended with words such as these"

Well,if I did indeed get trounced by Dee Dee,I have no one to blame but myself.I should have taken the advice of a close friend to never argue with an idiot,because she will bring you down to her level and beat you with experience.

Is this doctrine of yours so dear to your heart that you belittle a sister? This is very sad indeed.
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Thank you Jack.. and I say again for the record, Jerry and I have our major disagreements. There are even times where in all honesty I don't like him very much, but all in all, Jerry is my brother in the Lord. I have never denied that. I have a longstanding policy of refusing to debate nonbelievers, and would never have agreed to debate Jerry if I had any doubt as to the sincerity of his faith. I know I have friends and supporters who feel differently, but that is their convictions and is between them and God. I understand where they are coming from, but happen to disagree on that issue.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Tares and the Wheat

The Tares and the Wheat

For those who are just now tuning in to this discussion,please allow me to catch you up on the point that Dee Dee is now EVADING.

The Olivet Discourse was the Lord´s answer to the question,”And what shall be the sign of Thy coming,and the END OF THE AGE”(Mt.24:3).

Earlier the Lord had described the things that will happen at the end of the age,but Dee Dee will not believe His words because they do not match her teaching.The Lord´s teaching can be found in the parable of the “tares and the wheat”.

“The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man who soweth good seed in his field;But,while men slept,his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat,and went his way”(Mt.13:24,25).

We know that the sower is “the Son of Man” and “the field is the world”(Mt.13:37,38).We also know that at the end of the age that “the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world”(Mt.24:14).

So from this we can see that throughout the world (Dee Dee says that the “world” is the Roman Empire) the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and there will be tares also mixed in with those who believe.The Lord continues the parable:

“Let both grow together until the harvest;and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers,Gather together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them,but gather the wheat into My barn”(Mt.13:30).

So we can see that ALL the tares will be gathered out of the world and burned.Dee Dee says that the only ones who will be gathered and burned are the “unrighteous” among the Jews.But that is not what Scripture says:

“As,therefore,the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,so shall it be in the end of this age.The Son of Man shall send forth His angels,and they shall gather out of His Kingdom ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND,and them who do iniquity”(Mt.13:40,41).

All of the unrighteous will be gathered out of the world at the end of the age.Dee Dee says that only the Jews will be gathered out at the end of the age.So since her teaching does not match the teaching of the Lord,she will not face up to this verse.She says that she answered it,but she does not tell us why we should believe her instead of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

In His grace,--Jerry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top