Epoisses
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Straight out of the regurgitated bible. Don't reformed Christians have their own bible?
Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Straight out of the regurgitated bible. Don't reformed Christians have their own bible?
Epoisses
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Historical Arminians taught total depravity. It's actually the one common ground between Arminians, Lutherans and Calvinists.
They teach cooperation is a must for salvation as if God is waiting for unabled men to get abled. He'll be waiting forever and nothing would happen unless God brings grace and save.
I have a Geneva bible but it's a bit of a hard read. Luther got kidnapped by a King cause the king heard people like you wanted to kill him for translating the Bible
Epoisses
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Jacob Arminius taught total depravity. Many who came after him (Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals etc.) moved away from it. Arminius taught that man’s depravity is total and affects his entire being. Because of the fall every aspect of human nature is tainted by sin including the will of man. Arminius declared that the free will of man towards the True Good is not only wounded, maimed, bent and weakened but is also imprisoned, destroyed and lost. And it’s powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace but it also has no power whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. Thus the idea that Arminians believe that human free will survived the fall intact are false.
They thought prevenient grace trumps total depravity but the Bible debunked them. prevenient grace is cooperation
A Short Response to the Arminian Doctrine of Prevenient Grace ...*by John Hendryx at
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/prevenient.html
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/prevenient.html
Epoisses
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All forms of grace trump total depravity.
Epoisses
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Sinners need to see themselves as sinners so total depravity is not a bad or wrong teaching.
Epoisses
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He just agreed with what I said.
The Arminian, together with the Calvinist, affirms total human moral inability and utter helplessness of the natural man in spiritual matters and the absolute necessity for supernatural prevenient grace if there is to be any right response to the gospel. Like Calvinists, Arminians agree that, apart from an act of grace on God's part, no one would willingly come to Christ....1st paragraph
The elects are saved by grace, by God
The elects saw
At my Calvinist Church, we say it's both but most here claims Calvinism to be a different story.
If man was totally depraved he would not be able to hear and believe the Gospel. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17, Which is the Gospel.
If man was totally depraved he would be like an animal, he would have no knowledge of God whatsoever.
Man is not totally depraved like Calvinist want us to believe. On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard and believed the Gospel and were saved, some of them had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.
If man was totally depraved he would be like an animal, he would have no knowledge of God whatsoever.
Man is not totally depraved like Calvinist want us to believe. On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard and believed the Gospel and were saved, some of them had participated in the crucifixon of Christ, Acts 2:36.
Brother Ducky
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Correct. At least without the intervention of God.
Assumption on your part. Certainly no saving knowledge without the intervention of God.
OK. Make a case for a free-will salvation. Acts 2:36 just does not speak to the issue at all.
The best point for free will is that it promotes the justice and righteousness of God. God is off the hook because salvation is up to man, not God. "Chose this day whom you will serve".
Calvinism teaches that God is an unjust, unrighteous tyrant that delights in damning people to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam, which was not their fault.
Brother Ducky
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All kinds of unsupported assumptions here. God is in no danger of being on the hook for anything that he does or could do. If salvation is "up to man" make a Biblical case for a free-will anthropology that would allow this.
Where does Calvinism teach this?
The Canons of Dort First Head: Article #1. "God would have done no injustice by leaving them all to perish and delivering them over to condemnation on account of sin".
Here we see the injustice of the Calvinist God. All men are sinners without works. We are born into sin, Psalm 51:5. We do not become sinners by what we do. We are all born with a sin nature. It is not our fault that we are sinners.
If God condemned people to hell because they are sinners he would be unjust. People will never go to hell because of sin, they will go to hell because of unbelief.
In the Gospel "God so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son" to provide salvation for fallen man. No one is forced or made to believe. If God forced or made some to believe he would be unjust.
Epoisses
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The one requirement in the bible for being saved is belief in Christ and this same faith or belief is also spoken of as the gift of God. Both sides need to be upheld together. Faith is a requirement but God gives me everything to meet the requirement. Which comes first, the requirement or the gift? It's just like the chicken and the egg.