PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

[Angel4Truth]

So, "Angel4Truth," you can't really find anything to support opposition to the fact of the coming paradise Earth, so you jump in with nit-picking objections to WORDS that are different in the New World Translation.....though nobody is saying that it matters a whole lot whether Jesus died on a pole or a pole with a cross-bar. That is not going to affect our own salvation.

JWs do NOT "intentionally change" Biblical text to conform to any theology. We follow Westcott & Hort's efforts at translation, and are concerned merely that the texts are as close to the earliest manuscripts as possible. JWs used the King James Version and the American Standard Bible for almost 100 years before the NWT was produced. We can show the truth from ANY Bible.

Get out of your cult, and worship Him in Spirit *the way He appeared to Paul* and Truth.

The truth is that the 144000 are jews, not JWs, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribles and it says it right in the KJV and the American Standard bible. Did you miss it? Here, check it out:

Revelation 7 King James Version (KJV)

7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I was making the point that it was His flesh and blood body that had died....just as it was Moses and Elijah's flesh and blood body that had died. The soul and spirit live on after the body is put into the grave. There are physical bodies and spiritual bodies. Natural and spiritual.

That is spiritualism.

which supports that all dead saints are now in Heaven, which conforms with the RCC doctrine of Mary being alive in Heaven.

Peter said David was dead, not alive in Heaven.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Get out of your cult, and worship Him in Spirit *the way He appeared to Paul* and Truth.

The truth is that the 144000 are jews, not JWs, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribles and it says it right in the KJV and the American Standard bible. Did you miss it? Here, check it out:

Revelation 7 King James Version (KJV)

How is it that the JW cult has more truth in them than your cult.

The 144000 are Jews in the sense of what Jesus said a Jew is--

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

However they are 12000 OF each tribe.

LA

 

[KingdomRose]

How is it that the JW cult has more truth in them than your cult.

The 144000 are Jews in the sense of what Jesus said a Jew is--

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

However they are 12000 OF each tribe.

LA

They are spiritual Jews, as Paul explained, and include even Gentiles.

"Not all who spring from Israel are really 'Israel.' Neither because they are Abraham's seed are they all children....That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed." (Romans 9:6-8)

"Surely you know that those who adhere to the faith are the ones who are sons of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7)

"You [Christians] are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus....There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (Galatians 3:26-29)


It can be ascertained from that that the fleshly Jews were no longer God's special people, but any who had faith in Jesus Christ. These included many Jews, but not all were. So the tribes of Israel in Revelation are actually spiritual Jews, making up spiritual Israel, from all nations. See also Galatians 6:14-16; I Peter 2:9,10.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

They are spiritual Jews, as Paul explained, and include even Gentiles.

"Not all who spring from Israel are really 'Israel.' Neither because they are Abraham's seed are they all children....That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed." (Romans 9:6-8)

"Surely you know that those who adhere to the faith are the ones who are sons of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7)

"You [Christians] are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus....There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (Galatians 3:26-29)


It can be ascertained from that that the fleshly Jews were no longer God's special people, but any who had faith in Jesus Christ. These included many Jews, but not all were. So the tribes of Israel in Revelation are actually spiritual Jews, making up spiritual Israel, from all nations. See also Galatians 6:14-16; I Peter 2:9,10.

Yes.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


LA

 

[Angel4Truth]

They are spiritual Jews, as Paul explained, and include even Gentiles.

"Not all who spring from Israel are really 'Israel.' Neither because they are Abraham's seed are they all children....That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed." (Romans 9:6-8)

"Surely you know that those who adhere to the faith are the ones who are sons of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7)

"You [Christians] are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus....There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (Galatians 3:26-29)


It can be ascertained from that that the fleshly Jews were no longer God's special people, but any who had faith in Jesus Christ. These included many Jews, but not all were. So the tribes of Israel in Revelation are actually spiritual Jews, making up spiritual Israel, from all nations. See also Galatians 6:14-16; I Peter 2:9,10.

Jesus answers you:


Revelation 3:9


9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

You havent replaced them.

 

[KingdomRose]

Jesus answers you:


Revelation 3:9


9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

You havent replaced them.

Jesus isn't answering me with your thinking. You are oblivious to what the Scriptures have plainly made available to our understanding, that spiritual Israel is now the congregation of God, and includes all nationalities. How can you ignore posts like mine and Lazy Afternoon's? What do you think that I Peter 2:9,10 means? What do you think Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:7, 26-29 and Gal.6:14-16 mean? Can you explain them?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Jesus isn't answering me with your thinking. You are oblivious to what the Scriptures have plainly made available to our understanding, that spiritual Israel is now the congregation of God, and includes all nationalities. How can you ignore posts like mine and Lazy Afternoon's? What do you think that I Peter 2:9,10 means? What do you think Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:7, 26-29 and Gal.6:14-16 mean? Can you explain them?

She can not explain them.


LA

 

[KingdomRose]

She can not explain them.


LA

You are right! She cannot.

 

[KingdomRose]

Paradise on earth is coming. Better times are ahead!!

 

[KingdomRose]

"Each of [us] will sit under our vine and under our fig tree, with no one to make us afraid, for the mouth of the LORD of hosts [YHWH] has spoken." (Micah 4:4, NASB)

 

[KingdomRose]

Can't we all use some good news? We hear, every day, awful things on the news, on TV and in the papers, etc. Jehovah's Witnesses want to give people something encouraging to think about. That's why we go to peoples' homes (just as Jesus did in his day). The message is that this world will not always be in such a mess. God doesn't want it to be this way. The Bible indicates that the time for Satan to rule the world is coming quickly to an end. (I John 5:19; Revelation 12:12)

Humans will have once again what Adam lost. He was supposed to live on the earth forever and take care of it. That situation will be ours, and very soon. God's original plans have not been thwarted....they will see results.

Paradise on Earth is coming. Jesus will rule the earth for a thousand years, and we will have a marvelous life!

Revelation 20:4,6
" 21:4
Psalm 37:29
Isaiah 35:5,6
" 65:21-23, 25

 

[Angel4Truth]

You are right! She cannot.

The bible which i quoted, instead of my personal opinion, already said who they are. Ignore that, at your own peril.

 

[patrick jane]

Paradise on earth is coming. Better times are ahead!!

not for the Jehovahs

 

[KingdomRose]

The bible which i quoted, instead of my personal opinion, already said who they are. Ignore that, at your own peril.

You are not saying anything to make yourself understood. Are you saying that you don't need to say anything because the Bible has said it? OK....then I asked you to explain a few verses and tell me how I am mis-reading them. You claim I am wrong about the Jews not being a special people, as a nation, to God anymore. Then how am I to understand these verses?

1) I Peter 2:9,10: (To Christians) "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession....You were once not a people, but now you are the people of God."

2) Romans 9:6,7: "They are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants."

3) Galatians 3:7,26-29: "Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are the sons of Abraham....For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus....There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise."

4) Galatians 6:14-16: "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, upon the Israel of God."


I quoted from the New American Standard Bible. I'm sure you'll see that your version says the same thing. Now I would appreciate your explanation of those verses, if I do not understand them correctly. Thank you.

 

[Angel4Truth]

You are not saying anything to make yourself understood. Are you saying that you don't need to say anything because the Bible has said it?

Hello in there, read this again carefully, then tell me what you dont understand.

So, "Angel4Truth," you can't really find anything to support opposition to the fact of the coming paradise Earth, so you jump in with nit-picking objections to WORDS that are different in the New World Translation.....though nobody is saying that it matters a whole lot whether Jesus died on a pole or a pole with a cross-bar. That is not going to affect our own salvation.

JWs do NOT "intentionally change" Biblical text to conform to any theology. We follow Westcott & Hort's efforts at translation, and are concerned merely that the texts are as close to the earliest manuscripts as possible. JWs used the King James Version and the American Standard Bible for almost 100 years before the NWT was produced. We can show the truth from ANY Bible.

Get out of your cult, and worship Him in Spirit *the way He appeared to Paul* and Truth.

The truth is that the 144000 are jews, not JWs, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribles and it says it right in the KJV and the American Standard bible. Did you miss it? Here, check it out:

Revelation 7 King James Version (KJV)

7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

 

[KingdomRose]

I don't see any explanation at all of the verses I asked you to make clear for me.

You indeed have no answer. You can't explain them.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings KingdomRose,

Can't we all use some good news? We hear, every day, awful things on the news, on TV and in the papers, etc. Jehovah's Witnesses want to give people something encouraging to think about. That's why we go to peoples' homes (just as Jesus did in his day). The message is that this world will not always be in such a mess. God doesn't want it to be this way. The Bible indicates that the time for Satan to rule the world is coming quickly to an end. (I John 5:19; Revelation 12:12)
Humans will have once again what Adam lost. He was supposed to live on the earth forever and take care of it. That situation will be ours, and very soon. God's original plans have not been thwarted....they will see results.
Paradise on Earth is coming. Jesus will rule the earth for a thousand years, and we will have a marvelous life!

Yes I agree that Jesus will soon return and establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth. You mention the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but they preach that some JWs will go to heaven and be among the 144,000, and I assume that you teach that Paul is one of these. But in the following when he speaks to the Ephesian believers he states that they and him have “one hope”. Were all of the Ephesians going to be amongst the 144,000, while only a few JWs today will be amongst this 144,000? Do the JWs preach TWO hopes, one on earth, and the other in heaven?
Ephesians 4:1-6 (KJV): 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[KingdomRose]

Greetings KingdomRose, Yes I agree that Jesus will soon return and establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth. You mention the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but they preach that some JWs will go to heaven and be among the 144,000, and I assume that you teach that Paul is one of these. But in the following when he speaks to the Ephesian believers he states that they and him have “one hope”. Were all of the Ephesians going to be amongst the 144,000, while only a few JWs today will be amongst this 144,000? Do the JWs preach TWO hopes, one on earth, and the other in heaven?
Ephesians 4:1-6 (KJV): 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Kind regards
Trevor

Paul spoke of "one hope" to the Ephesians because he AND they were all anointed chosen ones that would rule with Christ in heaven. Everyone who accepted Christ through the centuries was anointed to rule in heaven, until the 144,000 were all chosen. It was only in 1931 that some started feeling that they didn't want to go to heaven. Since then most JW Christians claim the earthly hope. Yes, we preach two hopes. There are only around 18,000 Jehovah's Witnesses today who have the heavenly hope, and over 8 million who have the earthly hope (we have no interest in going to heaven).

Thanks for your question.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again KingdomRose,

Paul spoke of "one hope" to the Ephesians because he AND they were all anointed chosen ones that would rule with Christ in heaven. Everyone who accepted Christ through the centuries was anointed to rule in heaven, until the 144,000 were all chosen. It was only in 1931 that some started feeling that they didn't want to go to heaven. Since then most JW Christians claim the earthly hope. Yes, we preach two hopes. There are only around 18,000 Jehovah's Witnesses today who have the heavenly hope, and over 8 million who have the earthly hope (we have no interest in going to heaven).

I appreciate your response. This gives me a different perspective. If Christ was to start the 1000 years today, then there would be only a few million upon the earth, if we count these JWs from 1931.

I had guessed that JWs taught that only some in each generation from the time of the Apostles would go to heaven, while most would be rewarded upon the earth. Your suggestion of 1931 alters my assessment. I was surprised to see that you resurrected this thread, or even found it, as my lost Post on this thread was in August 30th 2017.

If you feel like resurrecting another thread, I wrote and discussed my differences with JW teaching in the thread titled: “Jehovah Witness Teaching compared with The Bible”. My last Post on this was June 12th 2017, but possibly a few others may have added a few Posts. From memory, both you and at least another JW participated. I have not altered my position on the various Topics that I mentioned in that thread. I especially believe that Acts 1:11 and Acts 3:19-21 (even in the NWT) clearly teach that Jesus will personally return to this earth and sit upon the throne of David in literal Jerusalem, subjugating and converting and teaching the nations, based also for example on Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14.

Kind regards
Trevor