ECT Our triune God

[Lon]

You are not being honest, Lon.

LA

Why? I'm beside myself.

 

[Lon]

at least they put forth scripture, but you argue with meaningless words ...
LA

:doh: you just responded to a post of mine with nothing but scriptures!

He has lost his way.

LA

And this, just 14 minutes after saying that, where I was posting scripture alone...Yesterday! :doh:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

:doh: you just responded to a post of mine with nothing but scriptures!

And this, just 14 minutes after saying that, where I was posting scripture alone...Yesterday! :doh:

you are not being honest Lon.

LA

 

[Omniskeptical]

Why is the Greek article translated 'the' in hundreds of places? It does not function exactly like English, but it is definite, not indefinite.

It shouldn't be. The only way to solve the so-called contradiction of Judas giving up his money is to think of the article this way.

Matthew 27:3 τὰ τριάκοντα ἀργύρια
[ 27:5 καὶ ῥίψας τὰ ἀργύρια ἕν τῷ ναῷ ἀνεχώρησεν καὶ ἀπελθὼν ἀπήγξατο ]
27:6 οἱ δὲ ἀρχιερεῖς λαβόντες τὰ ἀργύρια εἶπον

I have no problem viewing this as indefinite usage of the article when mentioning the "silver" i.e aluminum. There is also the the fact that 'ta' and 'triakonta' are plural accusative, and not neuter. They didn't take all of the money from Judas until he was dead.

 

[Lon]

you are not being honest Lon.

LA

Why?

Such a short statement is unresponsive the 2nd time. It is unbecoming of a believer to cause the waves you have in this thread and then run with little to nothing to say.

For the record, I have endeavored to be straightforward and honest.

 

[serpentdove]

"Jesus is...sinless..."

SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link

"You should not be on a theology site..."

:Commie: Silence the critic? :Shimei:

Anything Jesus would have done in his humanity, he would have done in his deity. If in his humanity he could sin, then you are saying that in his diety he could or would have sinned. Denying his holiness in humanity is denying his holiness in his deity.

[Paraphrased notes: The Anointing: Part 4b by Darrell Ferguson] Anyone who tries to separate Jesus' human nature from his divine nature is an antichrist. Antichrists try to separate the man, Jesus from the Christ. Jesus had/has full, complete deity and full complete humanity--one person, two natures. He is the Word. He is Christ.

He always had a divine nature--never did he give up his divine nature at any moment. They attempt to separate his deity from his humanity at some point in his life or altogether.

His blood cleanses us. As God, his blood has infinite worth.

Denying that Jesus is the Christ is the ultimate lie. We have an anointing. They are: anti-anointing, anti-God, anti-Messiah, anti-you. Their source is a lie. Our source is the spirit.

See:

The Anointing: Part 4b from the series Overcoming Evil (right click, open) by Dr. Darrell Ferguson

 

[Lon]

Thanks GR and DrSteve

Thanks GR and DrSteve

Allegation:

If you worship Jesus as God, yes it's idolatry. It's also blasphemy.

Response:

This is exactly what the false Pharisees said. They understood Jesus' claim to being equal with God, but rejected it to their eternal ruin.

Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33; Jn. 8:58 (I AM/ego eimi=Jehovahistic identity).

Worshiping Jesus is what distinguishes Christian from cult.

Heb. 1:6 God commands angels to worship Jesus. God alone is worthy of worship and angels forbid John from worshiping them in Revelation (worship God alone).

This is one proof that Jesus is God, not created being.

The same word used of worship of YHWH is used about Jesus. It is more than honor, but true worship. Rev. 4-5 has the Father and Lamb worshiped co-equally on the throne.

Jesus has the honors, names/titles, attributes, position, etc. of God.

He is Almighty God in the flesh (Jn. 1:1; Jn. 8:58; Jn. 20:28).

http://www.amazon.com/Putting-Jesus-His-Place-Christ/dp/0825429838

Godrulz for the win!

Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus is a man born from the human race through Mary , fathered by God who is Jesus Father.

not God's fellow creator God or being His own Father, nor returning to what He was before He was born, because He was only thought of in the heart of His Father the only true God.

Jesus is not a third part of any RCC trinity for His Father is greater than He is, and Jesus is the first born of a whole new creation of people.

Few people know Jesus, and their words testify to that fact.LA

Your words certainly testify to the fact that YOU DON'T.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, He does.

We honor the Father by believing the record that He gave of His son.

LA

Oh, you mean like the record of the Father calling the Son, God?

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[godrulz]

Oh, you mean like the record of the Father calling the Son, God?

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb. 1:6 God also commands angels to worship Jesus. God alone is worthy of worship. Jesus is God!

 

[Lon]

Funny thing is you cant put 'God' in a box or confine Him to a 'theology', - this is one of the downsides to 'theology' in general, where a 'dogma' or 'concept' of 'God' is worshipped, when 'God' is a living Spirit-Presence. Also as we've shared, the whole campaign to MAKE Jesus into 'God Almighty' is laden with complexities from which centuries of debate have haggled over Jesus 'human' and 'divine' natures to the point of 'con-fusion'.

Jesus maintains his true value and ministry from a Unitarian perspective, while a Trinitarian one imposes more into an 'equation' that is unnecessary, and by their own doctrinal assumption and defined 'Christology'. At the end of the day,...the Lord Jesus is still pointing us to the Father of glory, the Father of all spirits, the God of all, the First Source and Center, his own FATHER. This differentiation does not lessen Jesus one iota, since Jesus still draws us to him, whereby we enter into God's fullness...since Jesus reveals 'God' to us. 'God' Alone is 'God',...all else are His offspring. Life father, like son...but the Father is still the Original.



pj

You do...

It is my scriptural understanding that you guys lessen Jesus beyond iotas. Thomas said to Him, "My Lord and my God." For you or anybody to claim anything else is, to me, sin. It is trying to rewrite the bible or throw verses out. We triune can never, ever, not even possible, do such a thing. Unitarians and polytheists must understand and realize your impossible task.

You cannot change what we believe is true. The best that can happen on a forum like this is that you start another meaningless fight and waste your time and ours on this repetitious conversation. You can't change one sentiment I've explained here, for any trinitarian. You guys might as well face that fact that your efforts on a fundamental board are wasted ones. You've steered toward making stronger triune believers here, nothing more.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Oh, you mean like the record of the Father calling the Son, God?

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

God the creator raised up a man in His image who He fathered in Mary.

God made Him both Lord and Christ.

God the creator declared His Son to be God over the human race, in the new creation which the son is the first born of.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

LA

 

[Lon]

Glory Daz on where did Christ come from

Glory Daz on where did Christ come from

It's time you started reading the whole Word of God instead of just "explaining away" those verses you can twist to your own destruction. The Jews didn't get it either, so you're not alone in your ignorance.

John 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

:up: thanks GD

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.


When you read the Bible you need understanding from the Holy Spirit instead of making up things in your unrenewed mind.

You need to be seeking the truth instead of trying to fit scripture into your own views.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

If Jesus sends you then He sends you from Heaven.

Were you alive with God in Heaven before He sends you?

Think about it.

LA

 

[Lon]

Why Jesus must be the Word in John 1:1

Why Jesus must be the Word in John 1:1

Let's see if that lines up with what John writes.

John 1 KJV
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
​

Which corresponds to:

Colossians 1 KJV
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
​

Since all things were created before Jesus was flesh, your argument fails.



Let's look at more at what John writes:

John 8 KJV
(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
​

Since Jesus says He was before Abraham (ie. before Jesus was flesh), your argument fails again.

 

[Lon]

In school, we were all given standardized tests on context called reading comprehension. In it, we were supposed to learn that the context of a paragraph tells us what we are to do with particulars.

*Take the reading comprehension test below (not 'spiritual interpretation test).

It has nothing to do with your or my 'spiritual' scripture interpretation. It has everything to do with what your grades were/are on a Standardized Language test.

Reading Comprehension Test Section:
Read the following paragraphs and answer the question below.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. αὐτός
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. αὐτός
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.
Joh 1:15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, This was He of whom I spoke: He who comes after me has been before me, for He was preceding me.


In the paragraphs above, what can we say about the Word from the context alone?

A) The Word was with God and was God'
B) The Word was an idea, (it)
C) The word was a being (he)
D) Both A and C

This is a reading comprehension test, not a wacko spiritual agenda test. The answer is not open to 'interpretation.' How did you do?

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt. -Abraham Lincoln Proverbs 17:28

 

[Totton Linnet]

*Take the reading comprehension test below (not 'spiritual interpretation test).

It has nothing to do with your or my 'spiritual' scripture interpretation. It has everything to do with what your grades were/are on a Standardized Language test.

This is a reading comprehension test, not a wacko spiritual agenda test. The answer is not open to 'interpretation.' How did you do?

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt. -Abraham Lincoln Proverbs 17:28

Yup I passed....I never made my grades at school but I passed God's test...

 

[Lon]

Saw this with Tambora's help (thanks)

Saw this with Tambora's help (thanks)

...I do believe all Scripture.

... I see many many verses that speak of the HUMANITY of Jesus Christ, and I believe every one of them. I ALSO see many many verses that speak of the DEITY of Jesus Christ, and rather than ignore them or dismiss them (as you seem to), I believe every one of them.

Obviously, the reason you ignore the verses that speak of the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST is because... You've made up your mind that a mere man cannot possibly be God.

Now, see how you take one verse about God being the Head of Christ....out of it's context, I might add, and yet you IGNORE John 1:1 and John 1:14 which tells you the Word became flesh and is God? In Him dwelt ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD. The answer to your question would be CLEAR to you, IF you had not already decided He has but one nature. That's exactly how the Word of God is quenched by your mind.

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



You ignore the verses that tell you Jesus Christ is the POWER and WISDOM of God, and preach how the power was given by the Father, not understanding that Christ IS the Power of God. You close one eye when you read the Word........all the time you do it.

1 Corinthians 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

You ignore that He is before all things, that He created all things, that by Him all things consist....even that He was in the form of God and took on Himself the form of a servant (man). You shout out, "But He has a God!"

While I would never deny Jesus has a human nature, I also understand that He existed as the Word from the beginning. I understand that God clearly states He is the ONLY GOD AND SAVIOUR, and you point to the word "and" to claim they are of two different entities (God and man)....not the same ONE TRUE GOD. Just as God is Light, and Jesus is the TRUE LIGHT of God. John 1:9 KJV Just as you can't see that the GLORY OF GOD is found in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:6 KJV


Jesus is the REVELATION of God....His humanity hides Him too well from your eyes. He is a God who hides Himself from those who do not seek Him with all their heart. Set you "thinking cap" aside and read the verses that show you exactly who your Saviour is. There is only one. Jesus is the Saviour of the World and God says He alone is the Saviour.....it's God you argue with, not me. If they aren't the same ONE GOD, then the Bible isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Isaiah 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Think about it.

LA

We do, read ▲ Gloryd above ▲

 

[Lon]

Thanks AMR, works for me too!

Thanks AMR, works for me too!

[FONT=&quot]There is but one only (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4,6), living, and true God (1 Thess. 1:9; Jer. 10:10), who is infinite in being and perfection (Job 11:7-9; 26:14), a most pure spirit (John 4:24) invisible (1 Tim. 1:17), without body, parts (Deut. 4:15,16; John 4:24 with Luke 24:39), or passions (Acts 14:11,15); immutable (James 1:17; Mal. 3:6), immense (1 Kings 8:27; Jer. 23:23,24), eternal (Psalm 90:2; 1 Tim. 1:17), incomprehensible (Psalm 145:3), almighty (Gen. 17:1; Rev. 4:8), most wise (Rom. 16:27), most holy (Is. 6:3; Rev. 4:8), most free (Psalm 115:3), most absolute (Ex. 3:14); working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will (Eph. 1:11), for his own glory (Prov. 16:4; Rom. 11:36); most loving (1 John 4:8,16), gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin (Ex. 34:6,7); the rewarder of them that diligently seek him (Heb. 11:6); and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments (Neh. 9:32,33), hating all sin (Psalm 5:5,6), and who will by no means clear the guilty (Nah. 1:2,3; Ex. 34:7).

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]God hath all life (John 5:26), glory (Acts 7:2), goodness (Psalm 119:68), blessedness (1 Tim. 6:15; Rom. 9:5), in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made (Acts 17:24,25), nor deriving any glory from them (Job 22:2,3), but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things (Rom. 11:36); and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever himself pleaseth (Rev. 4:11; 1 Tim. 6:15; Dan. 4:25,35). In his sight all things are open and manifest (Heb. 4:13), his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature (Rom. 11:33,34; Psalm 147:5), so as nothing is to him contingent, or uncertain (Acts 15:18; Ezek. 11:5). He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands (Psalm 145:17; Rom. 7:12). To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them (Rev. 5:12-14).
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost (1 John 5:7; Matthew 3:16,17; 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14): the Father is of none, neither begotten, not proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father (John 1:14,18); the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son [/FONT][FONT=&quot](John 15:26; Gal. 4:6).[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


...works for me.


AMR[/FONT]

 

[Totton Linnet]

It is true man cannot possibly become God....but God can and did become man.

Look you at these anti-trins and see every man Jack and Jill of them are trying to be God themselves...they are all the perfectionists...all of them men and women trying to be God and scolding the rest of us for being mere fleshlings.

Moreover they scold the church for being based upon men because we teach Christ was divine but they are trying to build a divine church based upon Christ who they think is only man.

Poor fishies