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The Reformed view is perseverance of the saints.
AMR
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OSAS and Suicide
- Thread starter glassjester
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AMR
..which is OSAS
Or so that's what I've assumed, unless it's been turned into something else by other denominations. I know Martin Luther didn't teach OSAS.
Ask Mr. Religion
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OSAS is common to Arminianism. It is sometimes associated with the attitude that now that one is saved one can go off sinning with abandon.
OSAS tends to lead to the view that there is nothing remaining for the believer in their walk of faith. Who denies that there are not a few of those that sign the pledge card or answer a Finneyistic altar call soon show themselves to be not of us for they went out of us? The reason is that the typical OSAS view, never carefully explained from the pulpit, ends up in error, such as in Keswickian Exchanged Life views that include rationales leading to licentiousness--doing whatever a person wants "now that I am saved and always will be". OSAS fosters the wrong mindset.
The doctrine of OSAS isn't the Reformed doctrine of the Saint's Perseverance. But neither are they correct who embitter souls by teaching that a salvation that is actually theirs can nonetheless be forfeited by the veto-power of the human will. OSAS is a johnny-one-note doctrine that comforts the comfortable and disturbed conscience alike with a smothering salve. It usually teaches that "doubt" is the worst sin, and is the one thing that would demonstrate a lack of salvation. Thus, it offers almost nothing of genuine grace to the trembling soul; and for the casual "believer," it assists him in searing his conscience. In either case, the utmost confidence is urged in an act of the human will.
The Reformed argue that the corrosive power of sin upon genuine faith cannot hollow it out, because the source of that faith is divine, the gifts of God are without repentance, the Lord knows them that are his, no one can pluck them out of his hands, he conquers those he loves and wins them infallibly to himself, for they are elected in love and in Christ from all eternity.
In the doctrine of OSAS (eternal security), the process of justification is divorced from the process of sanctification. This arises from the belief of a libertarian free will, which therefore give Man the freedom to choose whether he or she wants to be sanctified after he/she is justified. Thus, a situation may arise where a person, after being justified before God, slips back into his old habits of sin and become a so-called carnal Christian.
The Reformed doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is much better by far. Unlike OSAS, it does not separate justification from sanctification (although both processes are distinct from each other), neither does it buy into the Arminian false premise of libertarian free will. Instead, it proclaims that all persons who are justified will also be sanctified (Rom. 5:2-11) and finally glorified (Rom. 8:30). In contradistinction to the Arminian, those who are justified do not have the 'free will' to 'resist' sanctification, though they willingly submit to it (compatibilism). Thus, those who are justified do not fall into such grievous sin so as to obscure their salvation but will finally repent. Therefore, the classical Arminian objection to Reformed Christianity falls apart with the understanding of the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. Furthermore, if there are such person who do sin grievously without any remorse, the Reformed doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints also states that a person who does sin willingly and happily may not be saved after all. (1 John 2:19).
Since God is the Author and Finisher of our faith, man cannot fall away from eternal salvation. Once a man has been born-again he cannot be unborn-again. Furthermore, the elect of God will definitely manifest evidences of their salvation by means of good works. The elect shall, by the grace of God and without exception, ultimately persevere in righteousness. The eternal security of the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is demonstrated by the persevering faith and righteousness wrought by the grace of God in His little begotten ones.
AMR
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So Arminius jacked OSAS and perceived it through the lens of free will ideology.
They are different forms of OSAS, I just realized- I'm Reformed Baptist, and everybody I've told that to who is also Christian are always like "oh, so you believe in OSAS : )".
Killing yourself is the most selfish and cowardly thing you can do.
A true believer will naturally love Christ and have his eyes turned toward Christ. A Christ focused individual would not be so selfish as to inflict pain on those close to him by killing himself.
The question is a stupid one IMHO. No Christian should kill himself. I don't care if he calls himself OSAS or not.
Suicide is cowardice and the Bible has something to say about cowardice.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
I disagree. People who commit suicide are in a great deal of pain, suffering physically or emotionally - possibly both - they may not be thinking clearly, they may be in a despair beyond their ability to see past it... they may be under the influence of substances which would impair their thinking... there are so many things that would lead someone to such an act. I don't believe that cowardice is one of those things.
heir
TOL Subscriber
2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV
You can say what you want about suicide being an act of cowardice, but if the person was saved there is NOTHING that can separate them from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord!
Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And quoting a verse out of Revelation written to those who must overcometh, does not work on a member of the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)! You ought to know better by now. I thought you did.
heir
TOL Subscriber
What if you don't?
Then you were never saved to begin with.
A central thing Calvin disputed was the 'going in and out' of salvation.
'Perseverance of the Saints' is 'OSAS', but apparently it is also a term which Arminians associate with yet nonetheless differ on- they have a free will version of it, whereas POTS sits on predestination.
Either way, POTS is the original OSAS- other Protestants stole and reinvented it, basically turning it into 'anarchy of the saints'.
heir
TOL Subscriber
That's just your religious, but lost opinion. It is contrary to what saith the scripture unto me, a member of the Body of Christ!
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
There is not one single implication in scripture that a person can go in and out of salvation. People merely assume that is the case, like with Judas for example- he was predestined from the start just as the Crucifixion, which is the Tree of Life all the way from Genesis.
The 'going in and out' is an obstruction of the power thereof. It says that God makes mistakes, and that it's overall flimsy and subject to mere mortal change.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Notice, that in my reply to you, I quoted what it is that I was addressing.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116577-OSAS-and-Suicide&p=4633068&viewfull=1#post4633068
Your religious, but lost opinion falls. The truth stands.
heir
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Who's arguing that?
Right Divider
Body part
That is exactly what heir is saying.
God cannot justify wickedness. That's the hangup with other Protestant doctrine, and what Catholicism has outright charged on them. Perseverance of the Saints is the only doctrine of OSAS that works.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Impossible, as it is Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Our justification and salvation are by the faith OF Jesus Christ!
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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We didn't DO anything to be saved and/or to stay saved. The reformers are nothing more than wrong dividers and no different than the religious~making up terms (Colossians 2:8 KJV). Just watch what they try and do with "regeneration". They don't even have a gospel of salvation. Take a look at Tulipbee! http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-forgiveness&p=4633113&viewfull=1#post4633113
They are out of order in that they do not believe they must trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth! They're a mess; a religious, but lost mess (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV)!
heir
TOL Subscriber
You better do a study on justification and see just when it is and by whose faith that we are justified!
Romans 4:25 KJV, Romans 5:18 KJV
:dizzy: Men are justified by faith (Rom. 3:26, 27).
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification [Rom. 4:25].
"That is faith, not only in the death of Christ, but also in His resurrection. Matthew Henry put it like this: “In Christ’s death He paid our debt; in His resurrection He took out our acquittance.” God justifies those who believe in the death and resurrection of Christ. How wonderful this is! Have you gone that far with God? Do you believe Him?" McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Romans 1-8) (electronic ed., Vol. 42, pp. 84–85). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
"Ro 5:18, 19 Summaries of the analogy of Adam and Christ.
5:18 condemnation. See note on v. 16. one Man’s righteous act. Not a reference to a single event, but generally to Christ’s obedience (cf. v. 19; Luke 2:49; John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38), culminating in the greatest demonstration of that obedience, death on a cross (Phil. 2:8). free gift … to all men. This cannot mean that all men will be saved; salvation is only for those who exercise faith in Jesus Christ (cf. 1:16, 17; 3:22, 28; 4:5, 13). Rather, like the word “many” in v. 15, Paul is using “all” with two different meanings for the sake of parallelism, a common practice in the Heb. OT." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1702). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
Romans 6
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
1 Corinthians 6
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
2 Timothy 2
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, the faith OF Jesus Christ!
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
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Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Yep! He was raisied again for our justification! He did it!
No need to try and take His glory! It is the Lord's!