OSAS and Suicide

[Rusha]

I definitely agree. But I don't see why an Osasian should.

For him, any earthly responsibility, or feelings of devastation can't even begin to compare to the bliss of the life of the world to come.

And, just to push the envelope a bit further... shouldn't he kill his family, too?


Seriously, don't kill yourself.
Or your family.

As human beings, I am not convinced people are able to get past the fear of the unknown. Insofar as his/her family, they would have to make the assumption that their family would be spending eternity with them.

Personally, I think that people fear death more than they are willing to admit because once it's done, everything is out of your control.

 

[serpentdove]

If you don't want to be stuck with your old name :vomit: hold out for your new name.

I will give the victor some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name is inscribed that no one knows except the one who receives it (Re 2:17). :king:

See:

Can I loose my salvation? Once Saved Always Saved?

More

 

[HisServant]

Because OSAS person would know that as long as we live and breathe, God has a plan and work to do. And if we love God, we should look forward every day to participate in the good works he has predestined for us to do.

I understand some people will cave under the pressure and will be inwardly focused due to our bizarre culture both inside and outside of the church to become a victim and seek suicide as an answer. But I am sure our loving and just God will have compassion on those people.

It is not easy living in such a corrupt world while being regenerated by the spirit while going through life... no matter how bad it becomes, God will never give you more than is bearable.

 

[elohiym]

So, I will just add this: personal responsibility and obligations. Simply put ... due to the fact that family and loved one's would be devastated by the loss, it would be an act of selfishness and cowardice.

^This.^

 

[nikolai_42]

Would he still be saved?

Let me ask you a question. Do you think someone who has been truly saved sees his sins as inconsequential things? That same sin that put Christ on the cross? Why, then, do you think such a person would think nothing of presuming upon that blood?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The answer to that question doesn't change anything. The assumption is that the security of one's salvation being divorced from one's acts provides no barrier to self-destruction or even self-indulgence. "If I do 'x', I'm still saved" is the general statement that describes the position. The answer has to be "yes" if one's salvation is not resting upon one's own works. The answer is "no" if one's salvation IS resting upon one's works. That simple. So the alternative to security of salvation apart from works is works salvation.

The one who presupposes works salvation will argue that the one who has this security apart from their actions is then free to do what they want. While true in one sense, it ignores the fact that the one who believes in salvation apart from works and is born again is not the same person they once were. They are changed and it is necessarily the Spirit of the Lord prompting their thoughts and actions. That doesn't mean they will be perfect, but it does mean they won't be looking for any excuse to indulge themselves.

So the fact that the answer to your question is "Yes. Based only on the fact that one is not saved by works nor lost after being saved by works, suicide would not take away their salvation" does not negate the fact that the real point of salvation makes this a straw man. At least in the instance where someone really is born again.

Works salvation is trusting in oneself, in one's own effort, ability, power. Salvation is trusting Christ, and the ensuing reflection of Him in someone. Suicide is not trusting Christ.

 

[elohiym]

... God is the giver and taker of life.

Yes, I am resolved to let Him decide the time, place and means.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

That seems to be the logical consequence of OSAS.

With the logical conclusion that one can not definitively judge if they are saved. That is God's job.

I know this is a hypothetical, but undoubtedly Satan has convinced some that they are saved and to do the horrendous evil deed. Tragedies of epic proportions!

 

[elohiym]

Personally, I think that people fear death more than they are willing to admit because once it's done, everything is out of your control.

Indeed.

In the Bible, it is written that Jesus came to "free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives."

 

[Crucible]

Why shouldn't an OSAS believer kill himself?

Because OSAS doesn't actually mean what many of you think it means, that's why.

 

[glassjester]

Because OSAS doesn't actually mean what many of you think it means, that's why.

Go on...

 

[Nick M]

Oh?

Yes. Omega, who currently is posting as Oct23, said there would be no pork in heaven.

Delmar said it would not be heaven without porkchops.

I agree.

 

[glassjester]

Yes. Omega, who currently is posting as Oct23, said there would be no pork in heaven.

Delmar said it would not be heaven without porkchops.

I agree.

Haha, ok.

Are there pork chops on Nibiru?

 

[jamie]

Suicide is sin. The penalty for sin is death.

:think:

 

[Crucible]

Go on...

OSAS is more archaically known as 'Perseverance of the Saints'. It's the 'P' in TULIP.

Those who are once saved, always saved will not die in wickedness. It's a doctrine situated on predestination, and doesn't work well when interpreted by another perspective- that is why it is common for many to suppose it's about simply getting baptized or something and it's written in stone.

 

[glassjester]

OSAS is more archaically known as 'Perseverance of the Saints'. It's the 'P' in TULIP.

Those who are once saved, always saved will not die in wickedness. It's a doctrine situated on predestination, and doesn't work well when interpreted by another perspective- that is why it is common for many to suppose it's about simply getting baptized or something and it's written in stone.

The idea being that, if someone did die in wickedness, they really weren't saved to begin with?

 

[Nick M]

Suicide is sin. The penalty for sin is death.

The penalty for sin was paid at the cross. That includes murder, adultery, slave trade, sodomy, and any other capital offenses one can think up.

 

[glassjester]

The penalty for sin was paid at the cross. That includes murder, adultery, slave trade, sodomy, and any other capital offenses one can think up.

Renunciation of Jesus?

 

[Crucible]

The idea being that, if someone did die in wickedness, they really weren't saved to begin with?

Sort of. It's not so technical that you would be necessarily damned by your last endeavors on Earth.

Martin Luther's theology was that as long as one kept their faith, they couldn't lose their salvation.
He held to predestination, but Calvin took it a bit further believing that one cannot 'go in and out' of salvation- and so pretty much if your actions and will in life do not suffice when your end comes, you were never saved to begin with.

Calvinism is a great theology to the extent that it exposes legalism and people judging others- it is a very personal thing, and that is something many choose not to appreciate about it. Rather, Reformed Christians are seen as 'arrogant'. A bit ironic, really

 

[john w]

Are they saved?
Maybe Jonestown had it right.

I attended a local "Jim Jones" meeting, rally, at the U. of Missouri, in college, in the late 1970's, in response to this flyer:

"The local chapter of the Jim Jones fellowship will meet at 7:00 P.M., at Middlebrook Hall. Kool-Aid will be served."


"I kill me"("Alf").