This thread was about Open Theism vs Calvinism, it's been derailed for a while now, pops.
ECT Open Theism debate
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
popsthebuilder
New member
That's no way to get it back on track, nor was it worth saying. What was your motive?
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Other members, including me have seen evidence of two meshaks in the past. Sometimes good vocabulary, sometimes bad.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So.... You ignored all the verses I gave you about what sin is, and how believers are not under the law, but continue in the same ignorance the Jews had for Paul's teaching of the Law and Grace. You simply don't want to hear anything that proves you wrong about your ignorant "knowingly sin" charge you so freely heap upon true believers. :nono: We were freed from the Law so we wouldn't have to listen to this ridiculous charge from the accuser of the brethren. Romans 8:33
There's a lot you don't get. "Abiding by the Law of the Spirit" is just another of your nonsensical evidences of double speak.
The Law of the Spirit is not something we "abide by".
It's like the law of gravity. It exists, whether we think we can "abide" by it or not. Same with the Law of Sin and Death. Your willingness to "abide by" that law doesn't matter one whit. It's a fact of existence. You sin you die. You step from a tall building, you fall to the ground. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Law of the Spirit of Life IN CHRIST frees us from the Law of Sin and Death. Those IN CHRIST LIVE....there is no condemnation for those IN CHRIST Jesus. We move from death to Life by what Christ accomplished for us.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
glorydaz
Well-known member
God forbid we should have the liberty to speak of such things. Popsthebuilder is on the Meshak, GT forum enforcement team. They shall decide what is naughty and what is nice.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Go soak your head....it's swelling. (Must be something in the water.) :nono:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Better than any of yours, Pops. :rotfl:
So more back to open theism, what about this verse? Doesn't it suggest a settled future or pre-destination?
Revelation 13:8 KJV - [FONT="]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/FONT]
Revelation 13:8 KJV - [FONT="]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/FONT]
marhig
Well-known member
Once we have faith, then we should be obeying God and Christ Jesus. Jesus' words are Spirit and they are life and they are the truth. And his word is for everyone.
marhig
Well-known member
Meshak is speaking the truth.
popsthebuilder
New member
I've personally only noticed one and that one has been rather consistent in her English. I'm pretty sure it isn't her first language, so she's doing pretty good.
Of she is using an alternate account or someone else is using hers well then I was wholly unaware of it.
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popsthebuilder
New member
That didn't explain anything.So.... You ignored all the verses I gave you about what sin is, and how believers are not under the law, but continue in the same ignorance the Jews had for Paul's teaching of the Law and Grace. You simply don't want to hear anything that proves you wrong about your ignorant "knowingly sin" charge you so freely heap upon true believers. :nono: We were freed from the Law so we wouldn't have to listen to this ridiculous charge from the accuser of the brethren. Romans 8:33
There's a lot you don't get. "Abiding by the Law of the Spirit" is just another of your nonsensical evidences of double speak.
The Law of the Spirit is not something we "abide by".
It's like the law of gravity. It exists, whether we think we can "abide" by it or not. Same with the Law of Sin and Death. Your willingness to "abide by" that law doesn't matter one whit. It's a fact of existence. You sin you die. You step from a tall building, you fall to the ground. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Law of the Spirit of Life IN CHRIST frees us from the Law of Sin and Death. Those IN CHRIST LIVE....there is no condemnation for those IN CHRIST Jesus. We move from death to Life by what Christ accomplished for us.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
You just keep saying the same thing without addressing my questions.
Why is there a law of the Spirit if it is irrelevant?
Why give the law of the Spirit to the believer at all of not to be followed?
And you never responded to the verses I posted showing without a doubt that each and every person who ever lived will be judged against their actions.
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popsthebuilder
New member
Many of my opponents use my not so perfect English as mocking and insult because they cannot refute my claims.
it is just cheap shot.
popsthebuilder
New member
Revelation 13: 8. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9. If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
It seems to speak to both destiny and potential or choice....so both in my opinion.
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popsthebuilder
New member
(context is important)So.... You ignored all the verses I gave you about what sin is, and how believers are not under the law, but continue in the same ignorance the Jews had for Paul's teaching of the Law and Grace. You simply don't want to hear anything that proves you wrong about your ignorant "knowingly sin" charge you so freely heap upon true believers. :nono: We were freed from the Law so we wouldn't have to listen to this ridiculous charge from the accuser of the brethren. Romans 8:33
There's a lot you don't get. "Abiding by the Law of the Spirit" is just another of your nonsensical evidences of double speak.
The Law of the Spirit is not something we "abide by".
It's like the law of gravity. It exists, whether we think we can "abide" by it or not. Same with the Law of Sin and Death. Your willingness to "abide by" that law doesn't matter one whit. It's a fact of existence. You sin you die. You step from a tall building, you fall to the ground. We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Law of the Spirit of Life IN CHRIST frees us from the Law of Sin and Death. Those IN CHRIST LIVE....there is no condemnation for those IN CHRIST Jesus. We move from death to Life by what Christ accomplished for us.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 7: 21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 8: 1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4.
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5. For they that are after the flesh do
mind
the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7.
(We see here it is one of two options; one of which is synonymous with hypocrisy)
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(You say you are not subject to the law)
9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
( We are to be burdened while in this life; this blink of an eye.)
19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24.
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
(Now tell me again you know you are safe after this verse specifically says we do not know but hope and in that hope and because of that hope we do follow the law of the Spirit ( the one you say is not needed for salvation nor is it needed to listen to or follow such for salvation))
25. But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
(Patiently waiting is synonymous with abiding by what one knows by the Spirit and exuding perseverance with hope)
26. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28.
And we know that all things
work
together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also
justified:
(Being justified is being pure and not in knowing hypocrisy)
and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32. He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
(We will be tried and tested and it isn't so we can fold our hand, but we are to run the race to the end, to the utmost of our extent in earnest with full assurance of the truth that is known, yet not seen.)
36. As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37. Nay, in all these things we are more than
conquerors
(Not synonymous with those who tarry and waver and procrastinate)
through him that loved us. 38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Your opponents refute your claims quite handily. You cannot accept the refutations.
musterion
Well-known member
1. It is not a cheap shot. Your claims are always refuted.
2. It is not your broken English that's the problem. The problem is when you have someone with better English to post as you. It insults us because you think we're too stupid to notice the difference.
3. You are not wrong because of your broken English. You are wrong because you are wrong.
Derf
Well-known member
You just talked yourself back into what I was saying.
Here's the conversation up through your last post:
If the faithful to God are Jewish, as you say, then the faithful to God would be faithful to do what He tells them to do. And God said man should apply the death penalty to a man who murders.
Are you saying God is wrong to have ever said that?
Here's the conversation up through your last post:
If the faithful to God are Jewish, as you say, then the faithful to God would be faithful to do what He tells them to do. And God said man should apply the death penalty to a man who murders.
Are you saying God is wrong to have ever said that?
popsthebuilder
New member
Not at all.
Did the Christ teach is to love our enemy? Was He crucified or did He unleash the wrath and vengeance of GOD? The faithful to GOD indeed would carry out the Will of GOD. But the sword we are to wield is the sword of the Spirit. We are not to be violent under any circumstances other than the direct protection of children or otherwise defenceless.
How do you get that we are instructed by GOD to physically kill any? Are you under the written law? A Jew being who indeed does the will of GOD would first have to know that will; and if you have ever read and comprehended the sacred texts with a spiritual mind, about the actions and teachings of Christ (the new testament and old) then you would conclude that we are specifically instructed not to kill.
It's kinda like atheists insisting GOD says it's okay to have slaves. How do you justifiably own the life of another if you are a Christian who believes the Word of GOD; that we are to love GOD and the creation there of; namely life and specifically human life.
You said they would obey or listen to what GOD tells them. I this is your mistake.
There is a difference between tells and told.
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