ECT Open Theism debate

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
If the Holy Spirit dwells in the saved then how would one not have faith in said Spirit that is within the believer?
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The Holy Spirit does dwell in the saved. He does not dwell in those who only think they're saved.

How is being made new the same as knowing sin and still commiting it because you think you are safe regardless of what you do?
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No believer does that. That is a figment of the natural man's imagination. As I've told you. It's a dead giveaway of your lack of faith.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
glorydaz said:
Your assumption is either we knowingly sin or stay the same. :doh:

You simply don't trust God to do His work in us, do you?
That trust is what's missing from your "faith".

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​
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I have full faith in my Lord and GOD to complete what was started in me by HIS merciful grace.

Can we discuss things without unfounded and unsubstantiated claims and attacks.

I stop. I quite here and now.

Let is speak peacably that we might be brought into harmonious accord with the will of GOD, through the Spirit to the Glory of Christ.

Can we please hit reset and start anew?

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popsthebuilder

New member
glorydaz said:
The Holy Spirit does dwell in the saved. He does not dwell in those who only think they're saved.



No believer does that. That is a figment of the natural man's imagination. As I've told you. It's a dead giveaway of your lack of faith.
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So now you claim you don't commit knowing sin?

I'm sure that isn't what you meant. Could you word it differently, without demeaning my faith and the origin there of?

please

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popsthebuilder

New member
James 3: 1. My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3. Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12. Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
marhig said:
Oh I have, and I'll tell you this, Paul doesn't tell us not to obey Jesus because Jesus only preached to the Jews.
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2 Cor. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.​

Jesus preached the law while He walked among us. The risen and ascended Lord appeared to Paul and gave Him his Gospel of Grace. You can stay stuck on the wrong side of the cross if you want to, but Paul most certainly did change the entire meaning of the word obedience....as our Lord instructed. The Obedience of Faith is what Paul preached and you continue to reject.

You can quote Paul, but you clearly don't understand what he is saying about the nation of Israel.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
So now you claim you don't commit knowing sin?
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So now you claim I've said I commit knowing sin? Is there no end to your false accusations?

1. Sin is transgression of the law.
2. I am no longer under the law, but under grace.
3. I have been delivered from the law. Freed from the law of sin and death.
4. Christ is the end of the law for righteous for those who believe.
5. I am dead to sin. It has no more dominion over me.
6. Sin is not accounted to me.

The great part of this LIBERTY we have in Christ Jesus, is this delivery from the obsession with sin that you have...that all those have that are still under the guilt and bondage of sin.


I'm sure that isn't what you meant. Could you word it differently, without demeaning my faith and the origin there of?

please
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Probably not. You're too senstive, and when you say you're sure that isn't what I meant, you're only showing me your attempts to condescend. You just can't help but expose your true feelings.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
meshak said:
that is so difficulty for many of us including me, of course.
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No, it is not difficult to not say that the origin of one's faith isn't GOD. I may say a lot about ones doctrine but you will never catch me claiming that one's actual faith or the origin of that faith is not true.

I don't expect others to follow suit. But it is possible to not outright do such; quite easily I might add.

peace

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popsthebuilder

New member
glorydaz said:
So now you claim I've said I commit knowing sin? Is there no end to your false accusations?

1. Sin is transgression of the law.
2. I am no longer under the law, but under grace.
3. I have been delivered from the law. Freed from the law of sin and death.
4. Christ is the end of the law for righteous for those who believe.
5. I am dead to sin. It has no more dominion over me.
6. Sin is not accounted to me.

The great part of this LIBERTY we have in Christ Jesus, is this delivery from the obsession with sin that you have...that all those have that are still under the guilt and bondage of sin.




Probably not. You're too senstive, and when you say you're sure that isn't what I meant, you're only showing me your attempts to condescend. You just can't help but expose your true feelings.
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It was sincere actually.

I know without a doubt that you have a strong faith in Christ Jesus and GOD.

it was and is the setting aside of my personal want to be insulting and trying to correct. It is and was me pleading that we start new and you explain the doctrines you hold dear and why, scripturally, and personally, and allow me to do the same.

Just because I have been a certain way towards you doesn't mean I must continue that same way.

The offer stands.

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popsthebuilder

New member
glorydaz said:
So now you claim I've said I commit knowing sin? Is there no end to your false accusations?

1. Sin is transgression of the law.
2. I am no longer under the law, but under grace.
3. I have been delivered from the law. Freed from the law of sin and death.
4. Christ is the end of the law for righteous for those who believe.
5. I am dead to sin. It has no more dominion over me.
6. Sin is not accounted to me.

The great part of this LIBERTY we have in Christ Jesus, is this delivery from the obsession with sin that you have...that all those have that are still under the guilt and bondage of sin.




Probably not. You're too senstive, and when you say you're sure that isn't what I meant, you're only showing me your attempts to condescend. You just can't help but expose your true feelings.
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But how is sin not accounted to you if you commit it when we are told that Christ's flock will be judged?



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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
No, it is not difficult to not say that the origin of one's faith isn't GOD. I may say a lot about ones doctrine but you will never catch me claiming that one's actual faith or the origin of that faith is not true.

I don't expect others to follow suit. But it is possible to not outright do such; quite easily I might add.

peace
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2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?​
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
But how is sin not accounted to you if you commit it when we are told that Christ's flock will be judged?
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Christ's flock? Why don't you cite the verse you're talking about? If you're talking the Bema Seat that refers to rewards and loss of rewards....not salvation, and not condemnation.

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.​

Sin is transgression of the Law. Believers have been delivered from the law, and it's condemnation. Romans 6:14 Romans 4:8 Romans 8:33-34

BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN... That is what Christ accomplished for those who trust in Him. There is no sin in Christ, and believers are made free from sin when they are created IN HIM. NONE, not even you, Pops, can lay charges against His elect.

Romans 6:22-23 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
glorydaz said:
Christ's flock? Why don't you cite the verse you're talking about? If you're talking the Bema Seat that refers to rewards and loss of rewards....not salvation, and not condemnation.

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.​

Sin is transgression of the Law. Believers have been delivered from the law, and it's condemnation. Romans 6:14 Romans 4:8 Romans 8:33-34

BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN... That is what Christ accomplished for those who trust in Him. There is no sin in Christ, and believers are made free from sin when they are created IN HIM. NONE, not even you, Pops, can lay charges against His elect.

Romans 6:22-23 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​
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So being made free from sin is being made free indeed? Free from the bondage there of? I guess im just not getting how righteous and free from sin and abiding by the Law of the Spirit can similultaniously be the same as just not having knowing sin accounted to you as a GOD knowing believer.

2 Corinthians 5: 9. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Revelation 20: 12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

James 2: 12. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


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meshak

meshak

BANNED
Banned
popsthebuilder said:
So being made free from sin is being made free indeed? Free from the bondage there of? I guess im just not getting how righteous and free from sin and abiding by the Law of the Spirit can similultaniously be the same as just not having knowing sin accounted to you as a GOD knowing believer.

2 Corinthians 5: 9. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Revelation 20: 12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

James 2: 12. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


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And here is what Peter says:

1 Peter 4:17-19 (New International Version)
17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And,
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 
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