ECT Obey the Gospel

[Right Divider]

Why did he find himself having to remind them of other parts of the gospel of Christ in that very chapter?

Because they were behaving poorly, not that they needed to know more to be saved.

 

[john w]

What is it exactly, Danoh, that is incomplete about that content and unable to save without it?

What else, ON TOP OF the DBR for the sins of all, MUST the lost know and believe, else they won't be saved?

That's your claim. Don't evade it with questions. Don't let videos speak for you. Substantiate it.

Agreed. When I was a Roman, I had never before been presented the "good news," as pertaining to salvation, until I heard a preacher present 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. I heard it, believed it, trusted the dbr, and I knew I was saved.

 

[musterion]

Agreed. When I was a Roman, I had never before been presented the "good news," as pertaining to salvation, until I heard a preacher present 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. I heard it, believed it, trusted the dbr, and I knew I was saved.

Well, John, I hate to break it to you but you're not saved, and neither am I, if that's all we're standing on to know we're forgiven. Danoh says there's something missing that has to be believed too.

Maybe Danoh will outpour some of that "Christmas spirit" and save us by telling us what we weren't told when we first believed.

 

[john w]

Well, John, I hate to break it to you but you're not saved, and neither am I, if that's all we're standing. Danoh says there's something missing that has to be believed too.

Maybe Danoh will save us by telling us what it was we weren't told when we first believed.

Reckon we need the guh-low-ree clawd, brother?

 

[musterion]

Because they were behaving poorly, not that they needed to know more to be saved.

Makes sense when you get a feel for how stupid the Corinthians were capable of being, and how shocked Paul was at their stupidity.

 

[musterion]

Reckon we need the guh-low-ree clawd, brother?

More like a block of unrelated text, a few videos, a quote or two of some author you never heard of, and a LOL.

 

[john w]

More like a block of unrelated text, a few videos, a quote or two of some author you never heard of, and a LOL.

I suppose that we are not going to receive a gift today,from "Book 'Em" Danoh; no matter-I'm too busy claiming my miracle today, per the Benny Hill/Hinn circus. Puh-raze Gaaaaaawd!

 

[Jacob]

Can't be both.

Danoh is wrong and seeks to mislead you.

Instead, believe Paul.

Paul said he resolved to know nothing with the unbelievers at Corinth except Christ and Him crucified, 1 Cor 2:2. Hence 1 Cor 15:3-4 is indeed the vital content of the saving good news, not just a summary of it. It may look like a summary but Paul doesn't say that it is -- he says that THAT is what they had believed when they got saved. That means 1 Cor 15:3-4 is, itself, THE saving good news.

What Danoh always does on TOL is exactly what Paul sought NOT to do in 1 Cor 2:1...to falsely speak "with excellency of speech or of wisdom." That's Danoh's M.O. since the beginning.

Danoh wants followers. Don't let him deceive you from the simplicity that is in Christ, 2 Cor 11:3, as he has been deceived.

Yep, because in 1 Cor. 15 he is writing to people who were already taught all the details of the gospel, including who Christ was, what sin is, etc.

If you have done any evangelism with any frequency, you will run across many people who do not know what a sinner is, that they are sinners, what sin is, who Christ was other than "some guy in a movie" or "that guy the Christians are always talking about."

You will also run across people who don't even know even that much.

In Paul's day, that was even worse, the latter half of Acts 17 is one example of others one finds in Luke's account of Paul's journeys, of people who knew nothing about Christ.

And He is very rarely mentioned in the histories of that time - very rarely.

Even after Paul's extensive ministry.

While, in Acts 13, some people take him and Barnabas to be Greek gods.

Once, when a friend was witnessing to an attheist, he kept using the phrase "on the authority of God's word."

To an atheist!

Finally, I said to him 'look, you keep talking to him as if he already believes that. Obviously, he doesn't. You need to take a step back and prove that to him FIRST.'

Well, that is the same kind of mistake made about 1 Cor. 15 by people already on the inside of those passages "the choir.".

In other words, by people who already know something about what sin is, and about Christ, and that He died, and was buried, and rose again - people who did not know that before and about all its various details, until someone "delivered" that "unto" them, now read its summary in 1 Cor. 15 from their knowing that, and incompetently conclude that it is the gospel, that all they have to do is force those two passages on others, and the rest will take care of itself - presto - they know what sin is, they know its eternal consequence, they know who Christ was, etc., all from those two passages.

It is ridiculous, and the height of incompetence.

Try merely citing 1 Cor. 15: 3,4 to someone who was raised a Buddhist, or someone who was raised absent of any faith at all, as many Millennials have been raised.

Exactly where the phrase "unchurched" came from - the finding from extensive surveys, that many people surveyed knew next to nothing about Christ and or Christianity, and so on.

There is much more to the gospel than those two verses...there is...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Nope, I think I'll stand my ground on this one.

Then again, perhaps Luke was off when he related the Bereans searched the Sriptures DAILY whether those things asserted by Paul concerning Who Christ had been, was so.

Either that, or they were simply very, very slow readers...of two passages in 1 Cor. 15 - and that, before had even written those two passages.

No matter what angle one looks at it from, some are preaching their own incompetence.

Plain and simple.

Consider this, Jacob - writing to the Romans he relates he is writing because he has not been able to go to Rome and preach the gospel to them.

He then proceeds to write SIXTEEN CHAPTERS that he twice refers to as "my gospel."

THAT is a WHOLE lot of "gospel."

Much more than a mere, two verses.

Much more.

Isaiah 8:20.

Thank you both.

 

[Jacob]

When asked about Christ, these Israelis prove my very point...as does Paul, in...

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Which is obviously more than just two verses...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nL5TAiYjSu4

Interesting video.

 

[Rosenritter]

Salvation is by faith in an objective set of historical facts about Christ. That's what Paul said. You either believe that or you don't, but that's what he said.

Faith means belief, but you can't believe something if you don't know what it is. That means faith is impossible if one doesn't know what he's supposed to have faith in.

Your mysticism and vain philosophy has blinded you to the simple truth of what Christ has done for you.

You are awfully anxious to launch accusations there. "Mysticism and vain philosophy?" What does repentance of the heart towards God have to do with philosophy? And what is so mystic about repentance from sin towards God? Perhaps I could rather say that your espoused philosophy here has more in resemblance with gnosticism (salvation through knowledge) and legalism (what is the minimum amount that I need to earn salvation.)

But what saith the scripture? Let's turn first to the words of Christ: is salvation of knowledge or is salvation of the heart?

Matthew 25:37-40 KJV
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
(38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
(39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


In our first example from Christ's parable, knowledge doesn't enter into the equation. Christ judged the heart of the sheep by interpreting the principle of how they showed love to others, and applied that to himself. But, you say, that was only a parable! Well then, how about an actual example?

Luke 23:40-43 KJV
(40) But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
(41) And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


So now besides the parable of Jesus (because not everyone accepts the words of Jesus as being applicable for them) we have an actual example where Jesus assures salvation to this malefactor on the cross. Does he have those "doctrinal necessities" checked off his list? Can we be sure that he knew that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, when Peter and the others didn't seem to fully understand this yet? It's doubtful. So again, this is a matter of the broken and contrite heart, not a list of things "known."

But what shall we do with those that disregard Christ entirely, and would say "but that was a Jew?" Well, we do have some words of Paul even for those people.

1 Corinthians 13:8 KJV
(8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1 Corinthians 13:12-13 KJV
(12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
(13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

"Knowledge" does not even make Paul's top three, but out of those three charity is greatest. God can impart knowledge when the time comes, he can dispel any innocent misunderstanding when we see him. What he cannot do is force the rebellious heart to become love of its own free will.

 

[john w]

But what saith the scripture? Let's turn first to the words of Christ: is salvation of knowledge or is salvation of the heart?

1. Survey the book-it testifies that faith is knowing,a perception of facts, and that knowledge is based on evidence, "infallible proofs," leading to confidence or conviction.

Your "heart" faith, is akin to, "I hope I win the lottery today-my hearts gives me this feeling,..." or one jumping off a bridge, attempting to fly, and, half way down, exclaims, "My heart tells me, so far, so good!"

2. What saith scripture about the meaning of the word "repent?" You made up your own definition. Why did you do that, hypocrite/actress?

 

[glorydaz]

I know that. I was asking him what he meant by that.

To serve because it is commanded is a work of the flesh.

To serve through the empowerment and Fruit of the Holy Spirit is another matter altogether.

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Like what, Paul?

As when he issued the following commandment to the assembly at Corinth, back when the gifts were in operation.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

In contrast to the Corinthians, the Thessalonians were merely reminded of those commandments Paul had taught and instructed them in...

1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Those are Grace motivated shoulds that instruction in the love of Christ towards us is meant to motivate in us as we learn more and more of His great love with which God loved us so, in and through, His Son.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

That "should" there is as in "mom is not well, I should keep the tv volume down" and is the "should" of a mature child.

Love is its' motivator.

In contrast to that of a not yet mature child - "I should keep the volume down, otherwise, when mom gets well, there's gonna be a serious problem!"

That is the Law motivated should of the yet mature child. Fear is its motivator.

Grace is not against conscious good works, rather, it does not bless based on conscious works.

Rather, Grace blesses on the fact that one is in Christ from the very moment in which one believed the gospel of our salvation.

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Rom. 5:6-8.

So what is your complaint about my simple albeit brief post? If I'm wrong, please point it out. If I'm not, then why is brevity not the best answer in this particular case?

 

[Rosenritter]

Obedience is not a series of actions. Obedience is another mentality and as such is the fruit of repentance. The intentions are given to obedience rather than disobedience and so the thoughts, words and deeds follow suit in the regenerate.

Well said.

 

[john w]

Obedience is not a series of actions. Obedience is another mentality and as such is the fruit of repentance. The intentions are given to obedience rather than disobedience and so the thoughts, words and deeds follow suit in the regenerate.

A Muslim, JW, Mormon, Catholic, some stoned, Hare Krishna monk, in Tibet, or on the streets of San Fran, ........................can display "obedience," that looks like "the fruit of repentance," and display "intentions," "thoughts, words and deeds....." And? Does that mean they are justified saints, trusting alone that Christ died for their sins, and was raised again for their justification, and are thus "regenerated?" Well? Unpack it for us all. Eternal destinies are at stake. This is "serious business." I work out, and occasionally go to a gym. Afterwards, I "feel good," and display "the fruit of repentance," in "thoughts, words and deeds.....," for at least a short time afterwards. Does that make the gym "Christian?" Well?

 

[Truster]

A Muslim, JW, Mormon, Catholic, some stoned, Hare Krishna monk, in Tibet, or on the streets of San Fran, ........................can display "obedience," that looks like "the fruit of repentance," and display "intentions," "thoughts, words and deeds....." And? Does that mean they are justified saints, trusting alone that Christ died for their sins, and was raised again for their justification, and are thus "regenerated?" Well? Unpack it for us all. Eternal destinies are at stake. This is "serious business." I work out, and occasionally go to a gym. Afterwards, I "feel good," and display "the fruit of repentance," in "thoughts, words and deeds.....," for at least a short time afterwards. Does that make the gym "Christian?" Well?

The fruit of repentance is not something you have experiance of.

 

[glorydaz]

No, it is not the gospel, rather, it is a summary reminder of the gospel.

As is obvious throughout Paul's writings and throughout Luke's depiction in Acts of Paul's words and actions, the gospel of Christ involves educating a person about what sin is; about what its eternal consequence is; about Who Christ was; about how He was God's solution to the eternal consequence of sin; about how that the person needs to avail Himself of this, God's solution in His Son, by Believing this gospel or good news of Christ.

Preaching the Gospel doesn't require all that. Most people know they have done wrong...some long dissertation about sin and it's consequences will only turn people away. People have questions, answer them, but those questions and answers are not the Gospel.

 

[musterion]

Preaching the Gospel doesn't require all that. Most people know they have done wrong...some long dissertation about sin and it's consequences will only turn people away. People have questions, answer them, but those questions and answers are not the Gospel.

EXACTLY. :BRAVO:

Romans 1 says people have always loved their sin and may have degrees of seared consciences, and so don't see sin as sin, so they see no need for a Savior. They don't even like to retain the God Who Is in their awareness. So why would they possibly want to hear about some foolish (to them) cross and innocent blood shed for something they believe they didn't even do? To them, it's the height of foolishness.

But the Corinthians were clearly open to hearing about what Christ did about their sin. THAT was the focus of Paul's initial ministry to them. How do we know that? Because Paul says so. Whatever Paul may have told them in addition to that is beside the point here. He says the knowledge of and faith in the DBR for our sins is THE core of the faith by which they, and we, are saved.

Can't wait to hear what Danoh's saving gospel 2.0 Deluxe Director's Cut is.

 

[musterion]

The fruit of repentance is not something you have experiance of.

Repent of not using spell check.

 

[glorydaz]

The fruit of repentance is not something you have experiance of.

You're thinking of the nation of Israel, and they were cut off until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Are you a Jew, Truster?

Luke 3:7-9
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.​

 

[glorydaz]

Why did he find himself having to remind them of other parts of the gospel of Christ in that very chapter?

Rom. 5:6-8.

Paul was always teaching, but those teachings were not the Gospel itself.