Also consider Jesus's own words. Twice he called his mother Woman as if it were her NAME. Once he said something like this at the wedding when he said: Woman, what have I to do with you? It is not my time yet." And again from the cross, "Woman, behold your son." Both times he took a potential common noun and used it as a proper noun. I simply think of Mother and Father as proper nouns where you consider them as only common nouns. Yet, same definitions.
New look days of Noah and the sons of God
- Thread starter JudgeRightly
- Start date
A bit off topic but it bumps the conversation about sons of God up a bit.
How many of you consider that before God created humanity [male/female] there may have been no females as daughters of God?
Adam even tells us that female/Woman came from Man. First there was man from whom female/Woman came ... but since that point all humanity has come FROM Woman kind. I once read a verse that stated: Women will be saved through childbirth. That was very puzzling to me until one day truth showed up. It was through Woman that the Messiah would arrive as The Son of God plus a son of mankind.
Yes! See the process which was planned? First mankind/male from which then came female/Woman and since then all men have come FROM female including the Messiah. If Satan could wipe our women and the fruit of their womb, then no Messiah would arrive. The role of a Woman and the protection of her fruit has been paramount to Messiah coming. Not that Woman desired or made it so but that God did. Is it any wonder that Jesus said from the cross: WOMAN, behold your child!
Women, be proud that God chose to use you. What an honor! Value your purpose more than anything. Stop allowing Satan/the prince of this world to lie to you and murder the fruit of your womb. That is truly a demonic thing.
Although I believe, before female all heavenly angelic beings were SONS of God, since Christ has come and brought Salvation I do think there are female saints in heavenly places. We women are also children of God. In Ps 82 I believe when God said: You are all children of God he was letting us know that from then on women were his children along with angelic non sexual beings and male humaniod beings. What do some of you think?
How many of you consider that before God created humanity [male/female] there may have been no females as daughters of God?
Adam even tells us that female/Woman came from Man. First there was man from whom female/Woman came ... but since that point all humanity has come FROM Woman kind. I once read a verse that stated: Women will be saved through childbirth. That was very puzzling to me until one day truth showed up. It was through Woman that the Messiah would arrive as The Son of God plus a son of mankind.
Yes! See the process which was planned? First mankind/male from which then came female/Woman and since then all men have come FROM female including the Messiah. If Satan could wipe our women and the fruit of their womb, then no Messiah would arrive. The role of a Woman and the protection of her fruit has been paramount to Messiah coming. Not that Woman desired or made it so but that God did. Is it any wonder that Jesus said from the cross: WOMAN, behold your child!
Women, be proud that God chose to use you. What an honor! Value your purpose more than anything. Stop allowing Satan/the prince of this world to lie to you and murder the fruit of your womb. That is truly a demonic thing.
Although I believe, before female all heavenly angelic beings were SONS of God, since Christ has come and brought Salvation I do think there are female saints in heavenly places. We women are also children of God. In Ps 82 I believe when God said: You are all children of God he was letting us know that from then on women were his children along with angelic non sexual beings and male humaniod beings. What do some of you think?
Derf
Well-known member
<sigh>
Oh well.
BTW, Christ said this from the cross: "Woman, behold your son." Who just happened to be the Promised Son of God who would come through Woman.
Another time Christ called Mary - Woman was at the wedding in Kinah in Galilee. "Woman, what do I have to do with you? It is not my time [to provide the wine]."
IOW, Christ was to provide his blood on the cross... the cup of wine which symbolized the shedding of his blood for mankind. This statement showed that he knew something that Mary and others did not yet know or understand about his mission as Savior.
I suggest that angels like Gabriel and so forth were males ... and that there were no female angelic saintly beings working as messengers of God until female was brought forth and The LORD God began to gather women as saints stored in his barns/realms.
I believe by this time, since female was brought forth and Christ has arisen, there are many men and women clothed in white robes awaiting the fulfillment of all God's plans.
Because I believe this, I believe in the beginning, around the time of The Garden, all angels were called sons of God and male humans were sons of God. Later daughters were added as Adam and Eve began to have daughters. Thus God at some point added the fraise in Psalm 82 "all of you are my children..." angels, men and women.
Another time Christ called Mary - Woman was at the wedding in Kinah in Galilee. "Woman, what do I have to do with you? It is not my time [to provide the wine]."
IOW, Christ was to provide his blood on the cross... the cup of wine which symbolized the shedding of his blood for mankind. This statement showed that he knew something that Mary and others did not yet know or understand about his mission as Savior.
I suggest that angels like Gabriel and so forth were males ... and that there were no female angelic saintly beings working as messengers of God until female was brought forth and The LORD God began to gather women as saints stored in his barns/realms.
I believe by this time, since female was brought forth and Christ has arisen, there are many men and women clothed in white robes awaiting the fulfillment of all God's plans.
Because I believe this, I believe in the beginning, around the time of The Garden, all angels were called sons of God and male humans were sons of God. Later daughters were added as Adam and Eve began to have daughters. Thus God at some point added the fraise in Psalm 82 "all of you are my children..." angels, men and women.
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That doesn't deal with specifying something different. All he had to say when they began multiplying on the earth. I don't add or take from to make it fit what I think has to happen. That is always my position.
Of course she did not know. Nobody knew because it was hidden from them. This is stated explicitly in scripture. This is one of the main things The Chosen gets wrong. The Lord Jesus Christ rebuked Peter and said get behind me Satan. And they are running with it. He said it because Peter rebuked him for saying something hidden from him.
I have opinions on a few of your points.
First, a time came when followers did understand some of what Jesus was doing. He told his disciples through parables of mysteries and explaining them at times. He even told them he had to die but some still didn't get it. You are correct that May did not know of the symbolism behind Jesus's "turning water into wine." He literally did that at the wedding but symbolically did the spiritual miracle on the cross. That is why he had a private moment of insight and could tease those of us in the future of his spiritual accomplishment.
Second, it is my perception that the reason Jesus said to Peter "Get behind me Satan,' is this. Peter's insinuation was the same lie Satan had told Woman in the Garden to get her to disobey The LORD God. He told Woman that she would not die. In fewer words Peter insinuated such an idea that surely Jesus as the Messiah was not going to die.
Peter may or may not have caught on and I have never watched the Chosen; so, I don't know what they presented. I'm sure there are a lot of experts still around in this world who speculate on what was meant as well as many other points in scripture.
Specifically him dying on the cross for the sin of the world is what I mean. It was hidden in scripture. Only the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit knew what was going on and was going to happen. It had to be hidden. Paul tells us why.
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The Passion of the Christ is the opposite of The Chosen. Mel Gibson got everything right but the interaction with Satan. Satan did not know. He thought he won and defeated the restoration of Israel. He is against them because they are his chosen people.
Here is an additional point on my topic about sons of God in Genesis 6 being sons of God and Adam born in the Garden.
First, I pointed out that Adam, as he began to form a language to describe things in his new environment, started rapidly increasing language. Examples: Man, Woman, Cleave, Father, Mother, Wife, Son, wife, One. These each pointing out a progression of activity taking place.
I pointed out that as Adam and his wife were about to leave the Garden Adam changed her name to Eve, which meant, she WAS the Mother of all the living! WAS ALREADY - PAST TENSE.
I've pointed out that Moses, in Genesis 6 NEVER mentions angels ... but every time talks about SONS of God and MEN. Even the off-spring of these SONS and the daughter's of Adam on earth were only MEN who became renown.
Now, I will point out another thing I find a significant clue: Genesis 3:22-25.
God was about to send Adam and Woman, who had disobeyed, out of the place of the Garden. They were not to be allowed back in.
Interesting point is this rule did not include the Lord coming unto mankind nor angels either.
Well, after Adam and Woman were on Earth Adam "KNEW his wife". Genesis 4:1-2 KNEW having the same connotation of cleaving unto a wife and sure enough she conceived and bare a son named Cain. To me she is very excited about this and proclaimed: "I have gotten a man from the LORD."
Now I asked of my teacher the Holy Spirit why might she have been so excited? I put two things together and believe that I can confidently theorize an answer.
Curious can anyone reading this post figure out what I see?
A. God explained to Adam and Woman ... that the seed of the Woman would overcome their arch enemy - Satan. I pretty sure Woman understood that through her would come that promised one to save them.
B. I once read that womankind would be saved through child birth ...
&&&*&(*(U(*Yh
WELL, something happened and I was shut off of my computer and all connections. I tried to "save" my post so I could paste later ... but now that I'm back on what I copied is not available.
I do not know what is going on. At first I figured TOL had banned me. ???? Now I don't know and it is getting late and I'm tired.
Let me see if I can remember any of it.
... I was puzzled and then I believe the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to Genesis 3. I believe Woman/Eve understood she would be given that promised seed/a son of salvation and predict that she hoped it would be her first born son upon the Earth. Yet, Cain was sent away about of the presence of his family and of the LORD/YHWH.
The only hope of woman and mankind ever since has been that THAT PROMISED SEED would come through birth.
The way I see things at this time is that Cain was not the first son born of Adam and woman ... but rather was the first born of her and Adam as mortals. Of course, since the NT was written believers understand the mystery of the Messiah. He was to be a son of man AND The Son of God... through Woman.
Praise God the Spirit, God the Father, God the Risen Lord. Salvation has come. Why do things seem to keep going along as if Jesus was not successful? Well, God is not ready to end all things ... especially the process of child birth... because he is still growing a kingdom of children for immortality. He waited on me to be born ... and you ... and everyone hitherto to be born and one day that will end.
I am not sure why Moses said Sons of God and daughters of men. It is speculation. But he made a distinction between the groups. And Nephilim means "lower ones" or something like that. He didn't say Nephilim went to the daughters of men. But some orthodox messiah denier Jews think they are the by-product.
It is a rebuke. Another translation is "adversary" because Peter first rebuked him. I am not a fan of perverting the gospels in The Chosen. But I like the portrayals of those he chose. They are human beings who are dead in sin just like all of us.
The key to my explaining the Gen 6 event and other scripture has to do with what I realized about Ps82. It is in that chapter I realized God called angels 'sons and children of God' ... and with HIS additional use of the phrase "all of you" HE included mankind in that same description as sons of God and children of God.
There are distinctions made in other places in scripture where HE uses the term 'gods' to distinguish between angels and men. God explained things well to Moses who spoke to the LORD face to face and one friend to another. Moses used the proper terminology.
In Genesis 3 God sentenced men and angels to die. In Ps 82 God pronounces the final judgement call to be carried out over time as well as in the future.
a.) For humanity there was to be one death which was begun as a process to occur over time - beginning from Gen. 3 forward... with the addition of a second death which would occur when the Risen Lord returns. It is actually called the Second Death and it happens in the Lake of Fire. This is the destiny for Satan and his rebellious followers whether they be angels or men.
b.) For Satan and his rebellious angels this Lake of Fire will be their form of death. I say form of death because death is different for angels than men.
Men die a physical death of the body and the spirits of 'saved' followers of Christ are rescued and given immortality and another body. For angelic beings, who were already created as immortal beings, their death is spending eternity in the Lake of Fire without hope.
NOW, there is an interesting matter which I have not studied. It is found in I Corin. 6:3 where this is mentioned: "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things [ should we judge] that pertain to this life?" Does this pertain to angels possibly having a second chance??? What are your thoughts?
Anyway, because I predict several things like: Adam and woman had a son before they left the Garden [Gen. 2] ... possibly more than one ... The fact that male humans were created to desire a wife and commanded to reproduce ... the theory that these sons of God born in the Garden had to leave their first abode to find a wife among Adam and Eve's daughters ... THEN I CONCLUDE: there were no daughters born in the Garden.
I assume God was disappointed they left his presence to live among the tried and sentenced part of the human race... even though their male offspring became MEN OF RENOWN on Earth. After that part of the story ... SIN had also grown rampart and God regretted having created mankind. Now, there were giants in the land ... whether they evolved from the human genetic pool or that these sons of God produced them ... I dare to theorized they did not come from angels having sex with human daughters. As far as I know angels were not created to marry and reproduce at all. Their offspring comes from spiritually stealing humans from the Kingdom of our Lord.
I agree. Get thee behind me Satan was a rebuke to Peter. The history and meaning behind the rebuke dates back to Genesis 3. Adam and Woman had been given a mission from God and had been told not to do one thing or they would die.
Satan then said to Woman, [Gen.3:4] "Ye shall not surely die." Well, these were not the words from God.
Pair that statement with what Jesus said and how Peter responded in Mark 8:31-33.
Jesus began explaining his mission from God about how he must suffer and die. Peter took Jesus aside and rebuked him for saying he would die. Well, the sentiment in Peter's rebuke was not to savour/honor the true words of God.
That is exactly what Satan did when he denied the true words of God and twisted the truth in his response to Eve - twisting the truth to say she would not die.
The rebuke was that Peter was lying about his dying and was dishonoring God's will.
I changed the last paragraph in post 85 to this:
Because I believe this, I believe in the beginning, around the time of The Garden, all angels were called sons of God and male humans were sons of God. Later daughters were added as Adam and Eve began to have daughters. Thus God at some point added the phrase in Psalm 82 "all of you are my children..." angels, men and women.
It fits more the way I am thinking with my studies at this time.
Because I believe this, I believe in the beginning, around the time of The Garden, all angels were called sons of God and male humans were sons of God. Later daughters were added as Adam and Eve began to have daughters. Thus God at some point added the phrase in Psalm 82 "all of you are my children..." angels, men and women.
It fits more the way I am thinking with my studies at this time.
The gospel of Luke, not written by a Jew, but a companion of Paul, and has provided additional information. The meaning was hidden from them.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
61Now it came to pass, when men men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men,
Not only is a distinction made, if there is no distinction is a gross redundancy of the Holy Spirit.
Here is the Orthodox-English that looks like jibberish sometimes to me.
And it came to pass, when HaAdam began to multiply on the face of ha’adamah, and banot were born unto them,
2 That the bnei HaElohim saw the banot HaAdam that they were tovot; and they took them nashim of all which they chose.
6 Now there was a yom when the Bnei HaElohim came to present themselves before Hashem, and Hasatan came also among them.
7 And Hashem said unto Hasatan, From where comest thou? Then Hasatan answered Hashem, and said, From roaming to and fro in ha’aretz, and from walking up and down in it.
This is the first time I even looked at the Orthodox Jewish translation for this. I have a few other times. There is a distinction being made.
61Now it came to pass, when men men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men,
Not only is a distinction made, if there is no distinction is a gross redundancy of the Holy Spirit.
Here is the Orthodox-English that looks like jibberish sometimes to me.
And it came to pass, when HaAdam began to multiply on the face of ha’adamah, and banot were born unto them,
2 That the bnei HaElohim saw the banot HaAdam that they were tovot; and they took them nashim of all which they chose.
6 Now there was a yom when the Bnei HaElohim came to present themselves before Hashem, and Hasatan came also among them.
7 And Hashem said unto Hasatan, From where comest thou? Then Hasatan answered Hashem, and said, From roaming to and fro in ha’aretz, and from walking up and down in it.
This is the first time I even looked at the Orthodox Jewish translation for this. I have a few other times. There is a distinction being made.
The only Greek and Hebrew I study is when I look up a KJV English word in my Strong's concordance and my Bible dictionary. I will attempt to take what you have shared and plug it in with the way I see things inside of [...].
Plus Genesis 1:1-2 introduces God by describing that He is a spirit moving over the waters. IOW, He is a living super-natural personage.
The Strong's Concordance definition adds information which I copied to the best of my ability:
"elohiym. pronounced el o heem; plural of #433, gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur) thus, especially with the art.) of the supreme God;
I conclude so far: elohiym is a collective noun. IOW, a word denoting a plurality of nature while grammatically it is used in a sentence as a singular word. Example The committee is at lunch. God is speaking to Abraham. Thus supporting the truth of ONE God but one with a full and complex nature.
continued with definition of elohiym ...
occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometime as a superlative - angels, x exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly) , x (very) great, judges, x mighty.
I put it into my own words to help me understand who these gods and God are. When I looked up elohiym it says a word referring to God or gods... spiritual beings with a supernatural body - not like mortal man's.
First there is God who is a living spirit, a creator, a great and mighty leader and judge, having a super-natural form/image for himself.
Second there are also lesser elohiym (gods) who were created and have their own body. There is a distinction made between lesser angels and The Angel of The LORD/YHWH God. Adam and Woman, even in the Garden, were not angels because we read that Woman wanted to be more like the angels. Satan told her she would be like the gods and would know good and evil ... That means she was not so much like them.
The lesser elohiym were created by The Greater Elohiym and thus scripture helps mankind by writing God versus gods. These created gods can be referred to as: sons of God, the lesser gods, and children of God.
Now, to address the other verses you shared - quoting ...
And it came to pass, when HaAdam began to multiply on the face of ha’adamah, and banot were born unto them,
2 That the bnei HaElohim saw the banot HaAdam that they were tovot; and they took them nashim of all which they chose.
My thoughts:
Gen. 6: 1
And it came to pass, when HaAdam [children of Fallen Mankind] began to multiply on the face of ha'adamah, [The newly assigned earthly habitat of Fallen mankind] and banot [mortal females] were born unto them,
Gen. 6:2
2 That the bnei HaElohim [I found a source that said it was Jewish tradition used bnei when refer to children of Israel, but I guess I would simply say: children of Adam; who were still considered children of Elohim/God and more like the created gods/angels than bnei HaAdam/children of Fallen Adam] saw the banot Ha Adam [the mortal daughters of Fallen Adam] ] that they were tovot [lovely]; and they [the sons of Elohim] took them nashim [wives] of all which they chose.
Paraphrased:
Gen. 6:3 And these sons of God who had once been sons of Adam in the Garden went unto their wives, as was God's original purpose, and either they or the children born unto them ... the same. became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Things like this make sense for me because I accept these as truth:
continued: Now to just briefly mention the two other verses you brought up.
Job1:1-5
Job's sons and earthly possessions are described in verses 1-5 and Job refers to them as his own sons and daughters. Job also goes before the LORD to sacrifice on their behalf just in case they may have somehow gone astray from God.
Job 1:6 There was a day when sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan was among them.
I am prone to think God is referring to his angelic sons/children of God in this instance. They came to present themselves before HIM. And God started a conversation with Satan about mankind... especially about Job and his family.
My thoughts inside [...].
In Genesis 6:11 Now it came to pass, when HaAdam [Humanity] began to multiply on the face of the ha'adamah [Humanity's habitat/Earth].
I've done quite a bit of looking into the Hebrew word Elohim; so, I have a strong opinion about who they are. First, In Gen. 1:1-2 The KJV English word God comes from the Hebrew word elohiym # 440 Strong's Concordance. Sometimes spelled elohim.
Plus Genesis 1:1-2 introduces God by describing that He is a spirit moving over the waters. IOW, He is a living super-natural personage.
The Strong's Concordance definition adds information which I copied to the best of my ability:
"elohiym. pronounced el o heem; plural of #433, gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur) thus, especially with the art.) of the supreme God;
I conclude so far: elohiym is a collective noun. IOW, a word denoting a plurality of nature while grammatically it is used in a sentence as a singular word. Example The committee is at lunch. God is speaking to Abraham. Thus supporting the truth of ONE God but one with a full and complex nature.
continued with definition of elohiym ...
occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometime as a superlative - angels, x exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly) , x (very) great, judges, x mighty.
I put it into my own words to help me understand who these gods and God are. When I looked up elohiym it says a word referring to God or gods... spiritual beings with a supernatural body - not like mortal man's.
First there is God who is a living spirit, a creator, a great and mighty leader and judge, having a super-natural form/image for himself.
Second there are also lesser elohiym (gods) who were created and have their own body. There is a distinction made between lesser angels and The Angel of The LORD/YHWH God. Adam and Woman, even in the Garden, were not angels because we read that Woman wanted to be more like the angels. Satan told her she would be like the gods and would know good and evil ... That means she was not so much like them.
The lesser elohiym were created by The Greater Elohiym and thus scripture helps mankind by writing God versus gods. These created gods can be referred to as: sons of God, the lesser gods, and children of God.
Now, to address the other verses you shared - quoting ...
And it came to pass, when HaAdam began to multiply on the face of ha’adamah, and banot were born unto them,
2 That the bnei HaElohim saw the banot HaAdam that they were tovot; and they took them nashim of all which they chose.
My thoughts:
Gen. 6: 1
And it came to pass, when HaAdam [children of Fallen Mankind] began to multiply on the face of ha'adamah, [The newly assigned earthly habitat of Fallen mankind] and banot [mortal females] were born unto them,
Gen. 6:2
2 That the bnei HaElohim [I found a source that said it was Jewish tradition used bnei when refer to children of Israel, but I guess I would simply say: children of Adam; who were still considered children of Elohim/God and more like the created gods/angels than bnei HaAdam/children of Fallen Adam] saw the banot Ha Adam [the mortal daughters of Fallen Adam] ] that they were tovot [lovely]; and they [the sons of Elohim] took them nashim [wives] of all which they chose.
Paraphrased:
Gen. 6:3 And these sons of God who had once been sons of Adam in the Garden went unto their wives, as was God's original purpose, and either they or the children born unto them ... the same. became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Things like this make sense for me because I accept these as truth:
- Angels were created immortal and were not created to have sex and multiply and reproduce their kind.
- God from the beginning told Humanity to multiply and reproduce.
- Adam explained that sons would take wives; know them; and become one [another one].
- Adam and Woman had at least one son while in the Garden. Genesis 2:24.
- These sons of Elohiym/God and sons of Adam who left their first estate [dwelling place] were fulfilling their divine purpose to choose a wife and know her.
- ... it was just that they left God by choice instead of His sending them out of the Garden.
- Never once in Gen. 6 did God mention how upset he was with the gods/angels ... but constantly referred to men... and their daughters, their wives and their off spring.
- He referred to the wickedness of man [Gen,6:5] and never mentioned the wickedness of the angelic gods at this event.
- God flooded the world where fallen men dwelt but NOT the realm of the angels.
continued: Now to just briefly mention the two other verses you brought up.
Job1:1-5
Job's sons and earthly possessions are described in verses 1-5 and Job refers to them as his own sons and daughters. Job also goes before the LORD to sacrifice on their behalf just in case they may have somehow gone astray from God.
Job 1:6 There was a day when sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan was among them.
I am prone to think God is referring to his angelic sons/children of God in this instance. They came to present themselves before HIM. And God started a conversation with Satan about mankind... especially about Job and his family.
My thoughts inside [...].
In Genesis 6:11 Now it came to pass, when HaAdam [Humanity] began to multiply on the face of the ha'adamah [Humanity's habitat/Earth].
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
And hiddenness is odd, something can be right in front of your nose, but you missed it. That's happened to all of us in some way, I'm sure. The way the Suffering Servant of Isaiah was hidden from all descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was a unique, societal blindness. Just basically nobody could see it, the blindness carpeted Judaea and Palestine and Israel. And Paul, not from Israel but from Tarsus, in modern Turkey, certainly didn't see it either—not until he was miraculously converted, chosen, to replace Judas as the Twelfth Apostle, and teach the whole counsel of God, the whole entire Gospel of Jesus Christ, to the whole World.
God hid it from the world. This has already been shown from Paul, or the rulers would not have crucified him. We have shown you right here in this thread.