ECT Nang's Boastful Lie

[Christian Liberty]

You can't have it both ways. God does not grade on the curve. Doing the best you can is not good enough. If you are going to make works the evidence of salvation, then they will have to be at the same standard set by Christ, and you are now back under the Law for justification. You must meet the high standard of evidence or you fall short once again.

Since that's what she said, yes.

Yep. Believers believe God. The evidence that someone is in Christ is that they believe the gospel.

Anyone who claims that Jesus only died for some (elect) and not ALL men, does not believe the gospel, and therefore what they SAY they believe concerning Jesus, is evidence that they are not believers.

Anyone who claims that Jesus did not die for ALL sins, does not believe the gospel. If what they SAY they believe is that we must keep an account and confess sins to be "right" with God, does not believe the gospel. The evidence of what they SAY they believe about the once for all sacrifice for sin, is the evidence of a believer.

You are missing the subtleties of the Lordship Salvation debate, IMO.

Some people say that works are actually necessary to justify one before God. These people are not Christians. Justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. The Arminian version of this is highly questionable and borders on a false gospel itself. Everyone Christ died to save will be saved. If you deny this, you are at least implicitly denying grace alone. Luckily some Arminians are unaware of the contradiction.

On the other hand, Lordship Salvation asserts that a believer will inevitably orient himself towards Christ AFTER salvation. He will continue to practice a holier lifestyle over time as he grows closer to Christ. While some will certainly grow more than others, I think this is Biblical. Jesus is clear that being a disciple isn't easy.

That said, I agree that you and Nang do not believe the same gospels. I don't believe your gospel either.

So just say that instead of lying and saying she thinks Christians never sin, which she clearly does not believe per 1 John 1:8

 

[heir]

Heir thinks that Paul revealed a secret grace that never saved the O.T. Jews, or anyone else, until Paul came along.

It is called the worship of Paul; "Paulinianism."

No matter how strangely you worded it:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.


If something was kept secret since the world began, it wasn't known before that!

Furthermore, had the princes of this world known that "Christ died for our sins" they never would have crucified the Lord of glory.


1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Simple to see, yet you reject it.

 

[heir]

Well, if it is not the supposed secret gospel that Paul preached, that alone saves in this dispensation, as you claim . . . whose gospel has saved sinners since the creation of the world?

You don't even know what you are responding to with this post.

 

[heir]

You are missing the subtleties of the Lordship Salvation debate, IMO.

subtilty, more like, and we know who's behind it

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

So you choose against me?

Just because I am suffering persecution for my beliefs?

"Persecution"? Really?

You might want to look that word up in a dictionary. It is not possible to be persecuted on a web site.

 

[elohiym]

Welcome to MAD. :cheers:

Nice to hear of your repentance and acceptance of the truth. :thumb:

You're MAD now? I'm surprised by that news.

If you are MAD, I'd appreciate you explaining why you believe (in light of the gospel) that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and the sacrifices restarted.

Also, how were you convinced there was a supposed change in dispensations according to the mid-Acts chronology?

There was a change from an old covenant dispensation to a new covenant dispensation, but that change necessarily occurred before the cross. We know the Lord Jesus Christ was forgiving sins before the cross, performing the duties of a priest that necessitated a change in the law at that time because he wasn't from the tribe of Levi (Heb 7:12).

 

[Right Divider]

You're MAD now? I'm surprised by that news.

If you are MAD, I'd appreciate you explaining why you believe (in light of the gospel) that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and the sacrifices restarted.

Also, how were you convinced there was a supposed change in dispensations according to the mid-Acts chronology?

There was a change from an old covenant dispensation to a new covenant dispensation, but that change necessarily occurred before the cross. We know the Lord Jesus Christ was forgiving sins before the cross, performing the duties of a priest that necessitated a change in the law at that time because he wasn't from the tribe of Levi (Heb 7:12).

The NC/T is not just about forgiveness of sins and it cannot start until the death of the testator.

Heb 9:15-17 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
​

 

[Town Heretic]

I. A True believer submits to the Lordship of Jesus Christ (1 John 2:3-4)
2. A true believer searches for the lifestyle of Jesus Christ (1 John 2:5-6)
3. A true believer shows the love of Jesus Christ (1 John 2:9-10)

We are not saved by keeping the commandments; we are not saved by walking as Jesus walked; we are not saved by loving our brother; but if we are saved, these things will be present in our lives.

I agree. I've been saying something like that to little effect. You did a better job of it. Nicely put.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The NC/T is not just about forgiveness of sins and it cannot start until the death of the testator.

Heb 9:15-17 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
​

The forgiveness of sins by the death of Christ was for those of the OT who had repented but were not forgiven in their own time, just passed over temporarily.

After the cross men still have to repent and seek forgiveness in their own time to obtain forgiveness for their past sins and if they should sin further then they will have to confess them and ask for forgiveness.

The Holy Spirit brings those sins to light if the believer is sinning ignorantly and convicts believers of all sins as Christ sees fit to face them up about it.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



LA

 

[Jedidiah]

No...

Yes.

...Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith...

That's what I said.

...LA

J

 

[Jedidiah]

...We are not saved by keeping the commandments; we are not saved by walking as Jesus walked; we are not saved by loving our brother; but if we are saved, these things will be present in our lives...

This may not be perceptible til Glory.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You're MAD now? I'm surprised by that news.

If you are MAD, I'd appreciate you explaining why you believe (in light of the gospel) that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and the sacrifices restarted.

Also, how were you convinced there was a supposed change in dispensations according to the mid-Acts chronology?

There was a change from an old covenant dispensation to a new covenant dispensation, but that change necessarily occurred before the cross. We know the Lord Jesus Christ was forgiving sins before the cross, performing the duties of a priest that necessitated a change in the law at that time because he wasn't from the tribe of Levi (Heb 7:12).

I see you're still at it Harvey?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

"Persecution"? Really?

You might want to look that word up in a dictionary. It is not possible to be persecuted on a web site.

She's the "Queen of ALL Exaggeration!"

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

After the cross men still have to repent and seek forgiveness in their own time to obtain forgiveness for their past sins and if they should sin further then they will have to confess them and ask for forgiveness.

LA Lost's bad news

 

[Right Divider]

The forgiveness of sins by the death of Christ was for those of the OT who had repented but were not forgiven in their own time, just passed over temporarily.

False.

After the cross men still have to repent and seek forgiveness in their own time to obtain forgiveness for their past sins and if they should sin further then they will have to confess them and ask for forgiveness.

So when Christ died on the cross, He did not die for ALL the sins of the world?

The Holy Spirit brings those sins to light if the believer is sinning ignorantly and convicts believers of all sins as Christ sees fit to face them up about it.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This passage is what is called a "GENERALIZATION". It is NOT a prescription for continuous confession of sin. If we all had to confess all of our sins all of the time to be saved, no one would receive eternal life.

You and many others want to focus on YOUR sins, whereas God wants us to focus on the FORGIVENESS of our sins in Jesus Christ.

Col 2:9-15 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
​

I sincerely hope that you will, someday, accept the forgiveness that is in Christ and be reconciled to God.

Col 1:19-21 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; (20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
​

 

[Lazy afternoon]

False.

It is not false. The sins of past saints of the OT were not expunged until the cross. The law only provided God to overlook them for a time.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

So when Christ died on the cross, He did not die for ALL the sins of the world?

Many people will still die because of their own sin, because they do not obtain forgiveness from the Lord in their lifetime now.

This passage is what is called a "GENERALIZATION". It is NOT a prescription for continuous confession of sin. If we all had to confess all of our sins all of the time to be saved, no one would receive eternal life.

The washing away of past sins, as Paul and all believers in the book of Acts had to do, does not cover all of their future sins if they do not continue to confess them to the Lord when they are bought to their attention by the Lord, often through other men.

You and many others want to focus on YOUR sins, whereas God wants us to focus on the FORGIVENESS of our sins in Jesus Christ.

Col 2:9-15 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
​

I sincerely hope that you will, someday, accept the forgiveness that is in Christ and be reconciled to God.

Col 1:19-21 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; (20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
​

As sure as the sun comes up every day, you will continue to sin until you stop.

Paul's instructions to stop sinning would be a waste of his breath if he thought believers stopped sinning upon their conversion.

As believers walk in the light and have fellowship with one another, the Lord speaks through His people to one another and throws light on hidden sins which hinder their walk, and which give the accuser the ability to persuade others from giving their lives to Christ.

LA

 

[Right Divider]

It is not false. The sins of past saints of the OT were not expunged until the cross. The law only provided God to overlook them for a time.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

OK, that's not what it sounded like you were saying in the original post.

Many people will still die because of their own sin, because they do not obtain forgiveness from the Lord in their lifetime now.

I have no idea what you mean by "still die because of their own sin".

Sin is not the issue with God anymore because of the reconciliation that we have in Jesus Christ.

The washing away of past sins, as Paul and all believers in the book of Acts had to do, does not cover all of their future sins if they do not continue to confess them to the Lord when they are bought to their attention by the Lord, often through other men.

There you go again, trying to lump Paul in the apostles that preached "Men of Israel" in Acts 1-5.

So you don't really believe that Jesus Christ died for ALL of the sins of the world. So you don't believe God when he says that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise? We you not crucified with Christ?

As sure as the sun comes up every day, you will continue to sin until you stop.

Jesus Christ died for all of those sins. How many sins did you have when Christ died for you?

Paul's instructions to stop sinning would be a waste of his breath if he thought believers stopped sinning upon their conversion.

You must be confusing me with someone else.

As believers walk in the light and have fellowship with one another, the Lord speaks through His people to one another and throws light on hidden sins which hinder their walk, and which give the accuser the ability to persuade others from giving their lives to Christ.

Which is more important: Gods forgiveness or our sin?

You focus on sin. I focus on Christ.

 

[john w]

It is not false. The sins of past saints of the OT were not expunged until the cross. The law only provided God to overlook them for a time.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.





Many people will still die because of their own sin, because they do not obtain forgiveness from the Lord in their lifetime now.




The washing away of past sins, as Paul and all believers in the book of Acts had to do, does not cover all of their future sins if they do not continue to confess them to the Lord when they are bought to their attention by the Lord, often through other men.



As sure as the sun comes up every day, you will continue to sin until you stop.

Paul's instructions to stop sinning would be a waste of his breath if he thought believers stopped sinning upon their conversion.

As believers walk in the light and have fellowship with one another, the Lord speaks through His people to one another and throws light on hidden sins which hinder their walk, and which give the accuser the ability to persuade others from giving their lives to Christ.

LA

Translation of the above, breaking it down:

Christ did not die for our sins, as out with 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, and God the Father did not forgive us of all our trespasses, so jettison Colossians 2:13, KJV, as the Saviour(your probation officer)died in vain, for nothing, and was/is really not a "Saviour."



Perverter, for all to witness, again. Thanks for your "good news," you evil wolf-ette.




"Paul's instructions to stop sinning would be a waste of his breath if he thought believers stopped sinning upon their conversion."-wolf-ette

Made up. He was urging them not to sin, because they were forever justified-sanctification.

 

[Town Heretic]

LA Lost's bad news

Wouldn't it be horrible to die as you knelt to confess and repent the day's sin? Damned by an aneurysm...tough break that. lain:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Translation of the above, breaking it down:

Christ did not die for our sins, as out with 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, and God the Father did not forgive us of all our trespasses, so jettison Colossians 2:13, KJV, as the Saviour(your probation officer)died in vain, for nothing, and was/is really not a "Saviour."



Perverter, for all to witness, again. Thanks for your "good news," you evil wolf-ette.




"Paul's instructions to stop sinning would be a waste of his breath if he thought believers stopped sinning upon their conversion."-wolf-ette

Made up. He was urging them not to sin, because they were forever justified-sanctification.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

LA