IMJerusha
New member
I'm not defending Calvin. I'm merely stating fact. Sheesh!
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- Thread starter Truster
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I'm not defending Calvin. I'm merely stating fact. Sheesh!
I understand, but I still would like to know. Do you respect Calvin as noble Christian?
Thx
But I'm not interested in hyper Calvinism other than light discussions. Limited atonement is an error as well as the predestination of the wicked to damnation.
I believe in
Total depravity
Unlimited atonement
Irresistible grace
And OSAS
Brother Vinny
Active member
Curious. Do you believe in the predestination of the believer to salvation? If so, what options does that leave for the non-believers?
If God ordained the end of all who get saved, He also ordains the means which include our prayers Vinny and our work of evangelism. I don't think predestination of the elect is something that can be totally and completely known but it gives me a substantial understanding of the verses that say none follow ...I chose you ...less the father draw etc.
I like Calvinists but they are self deluded if they believe they are working with the meat of the word with the five points, according to Hebrews it's a fundamental doctrine that the writer said they should've moved past already. The fact that many Calvinists are always debating soteriology is a prob for me in my observation.
In regards to the unbelievers in the end, I can only say in unison with you Vinny that our God did that which was right and good. We both know that not all will be saved and most won't be. My question in response to you is, what should our proper attitude be concerning those who will not make it into heaven?
Saying they have been predestined to hell is to denounce God's own words that he desires none should perish.
I think its important for you and I despite our different churches to recognize the prophetic word of an apostate church before the second coming.
I've been a jerk in the past in regards to the Catholic Church because of my love for unbelieving Israel who bore the brunt of "Christian" persecution thru history. However given what's being posted by evangelicals has given me an affection for your defense of doctrines such as the trinity. Sorry I went off topic, I'm not normally in conversation with Catholics... I had a friend once who was training for the priesthood, I really liked his personality, he made one feel safe.
IMJerusha
New member
Well, Meshak, that would be like asking if I consider you a noble Christian. I can't make that judgment. I can say that I consider you both Christians. That's it.
We know what Calvin did to non-trin. It is no secret. Jesus says we know them by their fruit.
Jesus' followers are persecutes, not persecutors.
The truth is not in wicked people, you should know that, sister.
blessings.
I don't believe in "noble" Christians, only Christians...struggling, flawed, human and so in need of grace. I find the sort who are most likely to turn their personal failures into a horror show for others are the same sort who believe they can rightly act as the judge of the soul of their neighbor and with no more authority than their neighbor proclaim them cast out.
IMJerusha
New member
Then the truth is in no one for there are none without sin.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I believe Christians like me, who have been shown amazing and saving grace from God, have every right to personally testify to His greatness, while defending ourselves against misrepresentations and persecution from others, who cannot relate.
Nang
IMJerusha
New member
So why do you have a problem with some who have needed to defend themselves against the misrepresentation and/or persecution from Truster? I mean, if you can see a need for defense for yourself, why can't you see the same need in others? Let me make clear that I don't hold Truster outside the Body.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
You have every right to defend yourself, and you have done so honorably and without rancor, vile cursing, or any attempt to destroy another soul who also confesses faith in The Messiah.
There is no excuse for false witness nor any display of vicious hatred towards fellow man, on a Theological forum.
Nang
We have Jesus' word. We don't have to follow anyone to follow Jesus.
Why do you have to read man's instructions when we have direct word from Jesus written down for us?
blessings.
You should realize that nothing in that spoke against anything I actually said though. :idunno:
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I am so glad this is your response!
We might differ over the how, of late, but no, I don't have any problem with people defending themselves. It's the sort who go around telling other Christians they are or aren't in the Body as though they'd been appointed the task that I think do more harm than they ever will good, both as it impacts the Body and in the secondary witness that provides those outside of the faith looking on.
Calvin is held high by many main streamers, especially by Calvinists.
And he persecuted non-trins which is clearly did not show Christian behavior.
There are some faithful ones, not just passive followers like most of us, I call them noble ones.
Calvin was extremely vicious one. It is just remarkable that so many follow him. Calvinism is an excellent example of corrupt faith.
Christians require grace because we're fallible. Put a fallible zealot into a position of physical power and it's a recipe for disaster. Paul was persecuting Christians out of a love of God. It's a thing to keep in mind.
Okay. I knew a Methodist minister who passed recently and he radiated the peace of a long, meaningful and passionate walk with God.
I'm not here to attack or defend Calvinism. I'd rather speak to and of the unmerited grace given us by God and the gratitude and spirit that should flow from that.