Another lie from the mouth of GT.
See how much she loves lies.
Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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See how much she loves lies.
(Luke 16:16) "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
HINT: Jesus preached after John.
Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom, not the law of Moses.
Foolish man.
Matthew 5:17-18 KJV
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Fulfilling the law, is not the same as preaching the law.
Luke 16:16 clearly proves you wrong.
Jesus taught the law and prophets as well as teach that as long as long as there was heaven and earth not one thing would pass from the law.
He taught that He did NOT have any intention to destroy the law and tells us not to even think such a thing.
Jesus did indeed teach the law.
Matthew 7:12 KJV
(12) Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
(12) Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mark 12:29-31 KJV
(29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
(30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
(31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
You and GT are foolish.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
In the thread in question (A Question for Open Theists in the Theology Club)he says this (dealing with Calvin's treatment of I John 5:11) in his last post on that thread :
In an earlier post (note that your quote of AMR in that thread has the reader going to a post that doesn't contain the quote of his that you used), AMR defines his terms and includes the snippet you put up:
The best one can say is that there is a confusion of definitions here. That your use of terms doesn't line up with AMR's use of terms - and this second thread I quoted has (in its completion) a more thorough treatment of what AMR means by the terms he uses. That statement can be read as more of a way of defining what faith is than its role. In recognizing that salvation isn't just something that can be captured in a moment in time (we are saved, we are being saved and we will be saved is what he says), his post - and the ordo salutis - is a recognition of the origins and continuation of salvation. Faith is necessary for the continuation of salvation (since without it one cannot please God) but at the inception of the believer (being "born again", "regenerated" or "saved" in common parlance) one has to have one of two things - a dead corpse believing on its own or a saving God raising that dead corpse to life. The only other alternative is to have someone who "isn't quite dead" and so can rely a little on his own ability to believe and be brought to life. Unfortunately, that scenario doesn't seem to jive with any situations or statements found in scripture. We are either dead in trespasses and sins (and enemies of God) or we are in Him.
So after defining terms, fleshing it out a decent amount and then saying what he did in the first quote I put up in this response, I think AMR just felt like there was nothing else needed to be said (unless he was going to repeat himself).
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It cracks me up when you Darby followers say this.
If your above statement is true, then the law is fully in place today, right now.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are changing the subject from what I said in my OP. Go back and look there. I presented that evidence to Mr. Religion on page 30 of that thread, post #444.
After that Mr. Religion was not seen again on that thread. Perhaps you want to defend what he said here?:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If you will look at Romans 2:5-16 Paul is speaking of the LORD judging people based on their deeds or works and He said that "as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law" (Ro.2:12).
Then He says that this judgement will take place "in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" (Ro.2:16).
So the Jews who do not believe will be judged by the law in that day. So common sense dictates that the moral law in regard to "the law" is still in effect for the Jews who do not believe.
No, punk, all he is saying is the result of those who do not hear him.
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine...
By that "argument," you must sell all you have,and thus the words to sell all are his words, you heard them, and once again, Bel, you said that you obey all of his words/always, everything, without qualification.
Do it.
Fraud.
Show us any command that the Lord Jesus Christ gave, where he said "everyone."=everyone must do it
And we laugh at Hank Hannegraaf, J. Stewart Russell, ...................Flavey Joe followers, such as yourself, whose Preterism/AD 70-ism just makes things up on the fly, and say "no law" today-gone.
So, wimp Craigie, demonically, asserts that the law is not in place, and satanically, by that argument, must assert, at the same time:
1.Everyone is saved...
If the law was done away with, not in place today, everyone would be saved:
1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So, one of the definitions of sin is " the transgression of the law."
With me?
Now:
Romans 4:15 KJV because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 KJV (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Thus, since sin is the transgression of the law, and, if it is true that there is no more "God's holy law," then, where there is no law, there is no transgression, whereby anyone can be accused, and sin cannot be imputed, if there is no law. Secular wise, for eg., if there is no law against speeding/going over a certain speed, no one can be charged with speeding/breaking a law-there is no law against speeding-no transgression.
And stuff your twisted spin of "We are under a new law...." jazz, as that has NADA to do with the purpose of God's holy law, one being.....#2...
2.Craigie asserts, at the same time, that:
-No one today can be saved, as there is no law, to bring the lost to the knowledge of what sin is, and thus bring them to Christ...
Romans 3:20 KJV
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
With me, stupid Craigie?I know that is quite difficult for you, since you "follow the fallable teachings/inventions of men."
Galatians 3:24-25 KJV
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Read it, weasel-"no longer."
Read it, sweetie-"was our schoolmaster"=at one time they were under the law-when they were lost.
Read it, wimp-Paul says one of the law 's purpose, for Him, the Galatians, members of the boc, when they were lost, was to bring them to Christ, as their schoolmaster-another function of the law.
And you, moron, on record, by your "argument," are proposing that Paul and others were brought to Christ differently, than respective now saved members of the boc today were, when we were lost(like you are now).
Your demonic Preterism taught you that-the bible never did.
The law is in place today, serving to bring the lost to the knowledge of sin, "breaking their back," being a burden, as it did to the children of Israel in Exodus(Romans 5:4 KJV-"...for our learning.."/, and bringing them to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Watch his disjointed, mcopy'npaste spam "response," that is satanic, jumbled, made up dung, that his Preterist/AD 70 books, articles, taught him, that we already picked apart, for years, on TOL...............WATCH..........
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Irrelevant. You assert that you always obey, all/everything "Jesus"/God says, everything you hear from Him, you do, without quailification. You were caught, continue to be caught, in that lie-No, you don't:
"Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone.....We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says...I always obey Jesus"-God’sUNTruth
Vs. Back peddling, lying, moving the goal posts:
Thus, you admit that not all of the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, are directed specifically, to every individual, for their obedience, even though you assert that you obey all of the commands, always, everything he taught...without qualifications, such as to whom He was/is speaking..
Yes, or no? Rhetorical q-you will not answer that question, even after being asked it, for over 2 years.
The answer is "yes," and all of TOL knows it, if we are rational, but you, in hypocrisy, deception, do not "allow" others to make the same argument, i.e., that not all of the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, are directed specifically, to every individual, for their obedience, and go off on your little hypocritical tantrum, with "You all are not obeying God/'Jesus" like I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
You hypocritical, deceptive, self righteous troll/rat.
God's Truth
New member
Wow, so good to hear you say that.
God's Truth
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You are exactly right, and it is so good to read this.
Made up interpretation of Luke 16:16 from one line Craigie.
"The law was nailed to the cross. You can't divide the law into parts that suit your belief system."-Tet. lie
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No scripture says that. That is our habitual liar, Craigie, that he must do, to support his satanic "AD 70-ism/Preterism."
My question to Craigie:
“Was the OC in place after the cross? Was the law part of the OC?Was Pentecost part of the law? Was the OC in place, adhered to, in ‘’arly Acts,’ ‘post cross?’ Was the law part of the OC? Was going to the temple, part of the law?”
His disjointed, words have no meaning, "response," lie:
“Which part of my answer didn't you understand?
There was an overlap of the covenants from 30AD - 70AD.
Of course Pentecost was part of the law. So were the three fall feasts that weren't not fulfilled until 70AD.
That doesn't mean that the law wasn't nailed to the cross. The law was nailed to the cross.
You just don't understand the overlap of the covenants”-Tet.
No, I don’t understand how you can be so stupid, and so slick, like your father. So slick, that you fall down, from the snake oil you leave below your computer.
Catch that slick lie, TOl audience? Why, you little demon, Craigie, as words mean nothing to you, you satanic pawn. Catch that? He asserts that the "law was nailed to the cross," and yet, the OC was in place "post cross," was followed, the law was followed "post cross,".....but the law was nailed to the cross.
And the Lord Jesus Christ, according to mCraigie, since He never taught the law, never btaugjht anyone to observe the appointed times/feasts, such as Pentecost.
Tet: The law was followed after the cross, but "That doesn't mean that the law wasn't nailed to the cross."The law was followed after the cross, but neither God the Father, or Jesus Christ, taught anyone to follow it, either before the cross, or after. And, according to Craigie, neither God the Father or Jesus Christ ever taught the law.
On record-satanic.
Did God ever teach anyone the law, Craigie? Who taught the early Acts believers to observe the law, keep the feasts? Who taught Paul to observe the feasts, part of the law?\
Watch the spin.....Watch "Levites..." Watch the punt, spam, made up jazz.
Who taught Paul and the Galatians the law, Craigie, to bring them to Christ, as their schoolmaster?
How did you get so stupid, Craigie?
How do you like that, Craigie? A perverter of the gospel of Christ holding hands with you. Of course, being the weasel that you are, you won't rebuke this devil child, as long as they are anti dispy. Not a peep.
Right, Craigie? Right...
God's Truth
New member
Jesus says that sums up the law and the prophets.
Jesus came to earth and taught the new law/regulations/rules for the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant.
Are you saying you do not have to love others as yourself because it is from the old law?!
Are you saying God is not One because it is stated in the Old Testament?!
God's Truth
New member
Tell us what you have to obey that God says. lol
nikolai_42
Well-known member
What I'm saying is that what you posted (without response) doesn't appear to really challenge AMR's position. His early post framing the definitions of terms being used makes it clear that he doesn't believe faith regenerates anyone - that God does that and provides man with faith by which to live and please God. Much of the ordo salutis takes place in an instant of time (potentially) but the order still is important to Reformed theology because (at least as I see it) it maintains the Reformed conception of the Sovereignty of God in salvation. So the verse you put up doesn't change anything and only appears as isolated posting of scripture in hopes that it derails the whole argument. AMR describes his view of the cause and effect and where faith fits in in that early post - and his comment (that I quoted) regarding Calvin and I John 5:11 summarizes the view nicely. The cause and effect you want to assert has God at man's mercy - "...if you believe, I will do it. Otherwise I won't." But then I suspect you would consider that to be an oversimplification of your own view, wouldn't you?
The Lord Jesus Christ taught straight out of the law-one, of many:
Mark 12 KJV
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, [U]Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself[/U]. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Lev 19 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.
3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the Lord your God.
4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the Lord your God.
5 And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will. 6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire. 7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted. 8 Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the Lord: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. 10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God.
11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the Lord.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
Mark 12 KJV
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, [U]Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself[/U]. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Lev 19 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.
3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the Lord your God.
4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the Lord your God.
5 And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will. 6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire. 7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted. 8 Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the Lord: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. 10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God.
11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the Lord.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
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