Man's Nature vs Man's condition"?

[PureX]

I'm restudying Revelation in preparation for a Bible Study. This is my least favorite book to study!
I came across this idea of the paradox in which humankind finds itself in that God, because of His infinitude plus man's sinful condition, is unknowable to mankind yet life itself depends on mankind knowing God?
Of course this is the necessity for an intercessor.
But, what I am pondering is when God created Adam he did not have a "sinful" nature inherent in his genetic code? It was through his God given freewill that Adam chose to go against one of God's prohibitions, thereby acquiring a sinful condition which irrevocably altered his nature until the coming of Christ?
I am not a theologian so would very much like to hear the thoughts on this subject by those of you more knowledgeable than I.

There are aspects of the human condition that are unresolvable. Like the perpetual contention between personal freedom and social responsibility. Or the fact that it is impossible for us to comprehend "God", and yet it's impossible for us not to want to. And that 'sin' is the result of humankind's unwillingness to accept both of these limitations as a part of the human condition.

God has blessed humanity with the amazing gift of imagination. Yet all we seem to want to do with it is imagine ourselves as gods. Always pretending that we know how everyone SHOULD be living, and always presuming that we know how the world SHOULD be treated, and how it SHOULD treat us. Always imagining that what we believe is the truth MUST be the truth … or else we'll fight every one, and destroy every thing that dares to contradicts us!

One thing that I have learned about life as a human being is that every asset is simultaneously a liability. The better anything is in one way, the worse it is in another. But if you ask me why that is, I can't tell you, because I don't know. We humans have spectacular imaginations, yet with them, comes our spectacular egos. Why this rule of opposing values exists, and why we are caught up in it with our imaginations and our egos, I do not know. Whatever "God" is, I am not it. So I just don't know the answer to these questions.

And the only way I know to cope with these conundrums is to humble myself, and accede to the 'great mystery of being'.

The Book of Revelations is just an archaic text written by men. It is not going to unravel the mysteries of God for us unless we use our imaginations to pretend that we have magically become demigods, and can know what god knows, and can judge all things as only gods could do.

 

[ok doser]

One thing that I have learned about life as a human being...

:freak:


have you learned things about life as something other than a human being?

 

[Ktoyou]

i don't blame eve - she and adam were innocents, with no experience with deception

the question to me is: was God aware of satan's true nature?

That is not the question, God know all too well the nature of Satan. The question has long been debated. 'why Eve'?

 

[whitestone]

I'm restudying Revelation in preparation for a Bible Study. This is my least favorite book to study!
I came across this idea of the paradox in which humankind finds itself in that God, because of His infinitude plus man's sinful condition, is unknowable to mankind yet life itself depends on mankind knowing God?
Of course this is the necessity for an intercessor.
But, what I am pondering is when God created Adam he did not have a "sinful" nature inherent in his genetic code? It was through his God given freewill that Adam chose to go against one of God's prohibitions, thereby acquiring a sinful condition which irrevocably altered his nature until the coming of Christ?
I am not a theologian so would very much like to hear the thoughts on this subject by those of you more knowledgeable than I.

Makes you curious,lol, if God created Adam with something in his genes that caused him to sin then Adam played no part in it and is innocent.

If we did not know the truth then we are innocent of it. If we are innocent then we have no need of an Savior and would be deemed "innocent". The only way we could be guilty of disobeying the truth is if we know it.

 

[serpentdove]

I'm restudying Revelation in preparation for a Bible Study. This is my least favorite book to study!
I came across this idea of the paradox in which humankind finds itself in that God, because of His infinitude plus man's sinful condition, is unknowable to mankind yet life itself depends on mankind knowing God?
Of course this is the necessity for an intercessor.
But, what I am pondering is when God created Adam he did not have a "sinful" nature inherent in his genetic code?...

No. Adam and Eve changed after The Fall. They had been created "very good" (Ge 1:31). They sinned and all changed (Gen. 3:1–5).

 

[ok doser]

That is not the question

well, that's my question

if God knew satan's true nature, and eve was an innocent, inexperienced with deceit, why would God let satan loose in the garden?

kinda like leaving your toddlers in the hands of a psychopath with a flamethrower

 

[serpentdove]

He was free to rebel, serve, love, hate...whatever he wanted.

Yep (Ge 2:17).

 

[serpentdove]

Are you testing the kids when you tell them to leave the electric box alone?

God cannot be tempted with evil neither does He tempt [test] any man...

:dizzy: God does not tempt men to sin (Jas 13-14).

Men will be tested: by difficult demands (Gen. 12:1, 2), severe trials (Job 1:6–22), the prosperity of the wicked (Ps. 73:1–28) and other hardships (2 Cor. 11:21–33). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 612). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

 

[serpentdove]

There are aspects of the human condition that are unresolvable...Always pretending that we know how everyone SHOULD be living...

You know and pretend :banana: not to (Ps 40:8, Ro 1:28, KJV).

As a reminder PureX is number 37 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

 

[serpentdove]

Makes you curious,lol, if God created Adam with something in his genes that caused him to sin then Adam played no part in it and is innocent...

And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth [John 9:40–41].

"We began with a blind man who was healed so that he saw, both physically and spiritually. We end with religious rulers who were terribly, tragically blind, yet who thought they could see. In the presence of Christ, in the presence of the Light, in the presence of the revelation of God, they said they had no sin.

Some of the most dogmatic people today are the atheists and the cultists. They say they see, but they are blind. They reject the Lord Jesus Christ, and so their sin remains. Although they are not walking around with a white walking stick, they are blind." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (John 1-10) (electronic ed., Vol. 38, p. 162). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

 

[bybee]

No. Adam and Eve changed after The Fall. They had been created "very good" (Ge 1:31). They sinned and all changed (Gen. 3:1–5).

That is what I have believed. They lost their innocence.

 

[bybee]

It's all, "the Job effect",,that is one of us look at the other and narrow it down to the reason why this is happening to each one of us. First we say it's because they believe this way,or because they don't believe that. We narrow it down to what is to be done we didn't do,then the thing we did and should have not.

The thing that is different is that we instead of being Elephaz,Zophar,Bildad,Elihu and Job we change the names and insert one of the many screen names exp.(whitestone),could be any name,on the www or in real life.

In part we are all of Jobs friends,or at least we find our selves doing the same things,lol. We see the wars and say to Job "this is because",the droughts,the heat,the cold the global warming it's all because of the very thing that whitestone did,,,it's the "Job effect" with different names.

Yup!

 

[nikolai_42]

:dizzy: God does not tempt men to sin (Jas 13-14).

Why, then, would the Lord teach His disciples to pray "Lead us not into temptation..."? I realize there is a fine distinction between leading into temptation and tempting....but in light of the common view of God, for Him to even do that would be little different from Him actually tempting. Elsewhere, it is said that He will not allow us to be tempted beyond what we can bear - but He does allow it. So it seems He both allows it and can lead us into it....

Men will be tested: by difficult demands (Gen. 12:1, 2), severe trials (Job 1:6–22), the prosperity of the wicked (Ps. 73:1–28) and other hardships (2 Cor. 11:21–33). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 612). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

 

[bybee]

There are aspects of the human condition that are unresolvable. Like the perpetual contention between personal freedom and social responsibility. Or the fact that it is impossible for us to comprehend "God", and yet it's impossible for us not to want to. And that 'sin' is the result of humankind's unwillingness to accept both of these limitations as a part of the human condition.

God has blessed humanity with the amazing gift of imagination. Yet all we seem to want to do with it is imagine ourselves as gods. Always pretending that we know how everyone SHOULD be living, and always presuming that we know how the world SHOULD be treated, and how it SHOULD treat us. Always imagining that what we believe is the truth MUST be the truth … or else we'll fight every one, and destroy every thing that dares to contradicts us!

One thing that I have learned about life as a human being is that every asset is simultaneously a liability. The better anything is in one way, the worse it is in another. But if you ask me why that is, I can't tell you, because I don't know. We humans have spectacular imaginations, yet with them, comes our spectacular egos. Why this rule of opposing values exists, and why we are caught up in it with our imaginations and our egos, I do not know. Whatever "God" is, I am not it. So I just don't know the answer to these questions.

And the only way I know to cope with these conundrums is to humble myself, and accede to the 'great mystery of being'.

The Book of Revelations is just an archaic text written by men. It is not going to unravel the mysteries of God for us unless we use our imaginations to pretend that we have magically become demigods, and can know what god knows, and can judge all things as only gods could do.

Couple of things, we want to know the unknowable. We may apprehend God through what He has revealed in nature, that is, factual. But we also apprehend Him through experience of Him.
One's experience of God is personal.
I have reached a point in life wherein I accept "there are mysteries" yet I am able to know all that I need to know.
Thanks

 

[bybee]

well, that's my question

if God knew satan's true nature, and eve was an innocent, inexperienced with deceit, why would God let satan loose in the garden?

kinda like leaving your toddlers in the hands of a psychopath with a flamethrower

Eve could have said "Not interested". And even more importantly, Adam should have shook his head said "We don't do that in this garden"!

 

[Totton Linnet]

A choice was presented. The tempter urged the choice to disobey God.

Ah choice...so you think choice is freewill....

If I say you can turn to the left or you can turn to the right but you may not go straight am I giving you choice or freewill?

 

[jamie]

Adam and Eve were created with human nature which means they were susceptible to making mistakes as we all are.

All of us are Adam and Eve only with different names.

If any of us are without past sin let him or her cast the first verbal stone.

 

[serpentdove]

[God does not tempt men to sin (Jas 13-14).] "Why, then, would the Lord teach His disciples to pray "Lead us not into temptation..."?"

Why wouldn't he? Men are wicked (Jer 17:9). Their wicked hearts tempt them to sin (Mk 7:21-22). God's heart is not wicked (Hab 1:13). When you sin--it's your fault not God's. lain: The blame game ain't gonna fly at the Great White Throne. :burnlib:

Elsewhere, it is said that He will not allow us to be tempted beyond what we can bear...

He'll provide a way out. Better take it. :Shimei: Ge 39:12 NET

...but He does allow it.

He does. :juggle: I recommend passing tests of faith. :king:

 

[Totton Linnet]

Job?

Was it God or Satan who tested Job? ....Satan needed to get permission to test Job ...the perfect man.

 

[serpentdove]

That is what I have believed. They lost their innocence.

Yes (Ge 3:7).