ECT MADists don't follow Paul

[tetelestai]

He can try but he ought take heed of the warnings in Re.ch 22.

That's pretty funny coming from the person who says the words don't really mean what they say.

Please tell us how all of the following passages from Revelation don't really mean what they say:

“The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

“I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

“I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

“And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

“…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

"Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

"Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10)

"Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

"Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)

 

[whitestone]

That's pretty funny coming from the person who says the words don't really mean what they say.

Please tell us how all of the following passages from Revelation don't really mean what they say:

“The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

“I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

“I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

“And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

“…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

"Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

"Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10)

"Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

"Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)

wow that is something,,,coming from someone trying to convince us that they all new without a shadow of a doubt that Quickly meant,,,a few more years just after Jesus told them that it wasn't for them to know Acts 1:7 KJV ,,,,

Not to mention that if John received the Revelation before ad66-70 then John actually did know and delivered the "times and the seasons" to them before hand(I.E. before ad70),,,,,

I'll be the first,,,,,,"John,,,,,don't,,,,stop,,,lol",,,

 

[john w]

Nope.

There is the Greek preposition "en" in front of the Greek word for shortly "tacoj".

Once again, this slimy, greasy, slick weasel is exposed as a fraud, a plagiarizer, a copynpaste scammer,as he knows no "the Greek," cannot write it, cannot speak it, cannot understand it, cannot read it, would not know the difference between a "geek," like himself, and a Greek.

From what site did you plagiarize that, Craigie?

And there is no such thing as "the Greek," plagiarizer.


"Spelling was never one of my strong points."-Craigie


Fraud. Con artist.

 

[tetelestai]

wow that is something,,,coming from someone trying to convince us that they all new without a shadow of a doubt that Quickly meant,,,

You're forgetting "near", "soon", "about to come", and "shortly".

a few more years just after Jesus told them that it wasn't for them to know Acts 1:7 KJV ,,,,

It wasn't for them to know the exact times. However, Jesus made it clear that some of them would still be alive before all the events happened that He said would happen.

Not to mention that if John received the Revelation before ad66-70 then John actually did know and delivered the "times and the seasons" to them before hand(I.E. before ad70),,,,,

Paul, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews all knew it was the "last days", "the end of the ages", "the culmination of the ages", etc.

I'll be the first,,,,,,"John,,,,,don't,,,,stop,,,lol",,,

You Darby followers stick together. Nothing surprising. Yet, neither of you can give an explanation as to why Paul said he was living in the culmination of the ages.

 

[whitestone]

Yea I can talk a whole lot too,,,never the less In post #1841 each and every scripture you gave was from Revelation.

Explain to us how before ad66-70 John knew this when Jesus had told them they were not given to know it.

Ad70ism hinges on it,if you cannot prove that he knew this before then, then no cookies. John now needs to Know the times and the seasons,,,receive the Revelation,,,and deliver it to those it was intended to warn/protect before Ad66-70,,,see the problem?,,,It's Acts 1:7 KJV we can believe you or Jesus,,,

 

[tetelestai]

Yea I can talk a whole lot too,,,never the less In post #1841 each and every scripture you gave was from Revelation.

Explain to us how before ad66-70 John knew this when Jesus had told them they were not given to know it.

Ad70ism hinges on it,if you cannot prove that he knew this before then, then no cookies. John now needs to Know the times and the seasons,,,receive the Revelation,,,and deliver it to those it was intended to warn/protect before Ad66-70,,,see the problem?,,,It's Acts 1:7 KJV we can believe you or Jesus,,,

Acts 1:7 is about knowing the exact date and time.

Jesus said the following:

(Matt 24:33) Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

As we see above, Jesus told His disciples that there would be signs for when the things would happen.

We also find the following in Revelation:

(Rev 22:10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

You want us to believe that "the time is near" means 2,000 years.

 

[Interplanner]

You're forgetting "near", "soon", "about to come", and "shortly".



It wasn't for them to know the exact times. However, Jesus made it clear that some of them would still be alive before all the events happened that He said would happen.



Paul, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews all knew it was the "last days", "the end of the ages", "the culmination of the ages", etc.



You Darby followers stick together. Nothing surprising. Yet, neither of you can give an explanation as to why Paul said he was living in the culmination of the ages.

When they used the expression "the fulfillment of the times" or "culmination," they did not think of eschatological charts and sequences as much as final chapter of a story or the emergence of the fruit of a plant that had been growing for a while. Today we'd probably call it the 'dramatic conclusion' in which many unresolved strands are connected or made clear.

 

[whitestone]

Acts 1:7 is about knowing the exact date and time.

Jesus said the following:

(Matt 24:33) Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

As we see above, Jesus told His disciples that there would be signs for when the things would happen.

We also find the following in Revelation:

(Rev 22:10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

You want us to believe that "the time is near" means 2,000 years.

Now your saying that the signs were already occurring and john received the Revelation after the end was ongoing and was visible when the Revelation was received ,before the signs ,as a warning or after?

 

[tetelestai]

When they used the expression "the fulfillment of the times" or "culmination," they did not think of eschatological charts and sequences as much as final chapter of a story or the emergence of the fruit of a plant that had been growing for a while. Today we'd probably call it the 'dramatic conclusion' in which many unresolved strands are connected or made clear.

There is a clear distinction between the following two commands:

#1

(Dan 12:4) But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

#2

(Rev 22:10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

As we see above, Daniel was told to seal his scroll UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END, whereas John was told NOT to seal his scroll BECAUSE THE TIME IS NEAR.

How can someone read the two verses, and then claim what John was told ("the time is near), really means 2,000 years?

 

[tetelestai]

Now your saying that the signs were already occurring and john received the Revelation after the end was ongoing and was visible was the Revelation received before the signs as a warning or after?

No I'm not.

I have always said that Revelation was written very early.

In fact, I have stated that Paul was referring to John being given the Revelation in the following verse:

(2 Cor 12:2) I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

If we do the math with 2 Cor 12:2 in mind, John was given the Revelation at least 20 years before 70AD.

 

[whitestone]

No I'm not.

I have always said that Revelation was written very early.

In fact, I have stated that Paul was referring to John being given the Revelation in the following verse:

(2 Cor 12:2) I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

If we do the math with 2 Cor 12:2 in mind, John was given the Revelation at least 20 years before 70AD.

do the math and prove it,,,,,,

 

[tetelestai]

do the math and prove it,,,,,,

Prove what?

John was given the Revelation prior to 70AD.

All the prophecies in Revelation concerning the Jews and Jerusalem were fulfilled by 70AD.

The writings of Josephus confirm the fulfillment of some of the prophecies.

For example:

(Rev 16:19) “Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.”


Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)

 

[whitestone]

Prove what?

John was given the Revelation prior to 70AD.

All the prophecies in Revelation concerning the Jews and Jerusalem were fulfilled by 70AD.

The writings of Josephus confirm the fulfillment of some of the prophecies.

For example:

(Rev 16:19) “Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.”


Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)

If we do the math,remember? 2corinthians written ad56(approx) ad56-ad66,,you narrowed it down yourself.

 

[tetelestai]

If we do the math,remember? 2corinthians written ad56(approx) ad56-ad66,,you narrowed it down yourself.

Ok.

And?

I don't need to pinpoint the exact year John was given the Revelation, nor am I able to do so.

It's very easy to see that the Revelation was given to John before 66AD because the events prophesied in the Revelation began to be fulfilled then.

You on the other hand are hellbent on trying to "prove" the Revelation was written after 70AD for no other reason other than to prove Preterism wrong.

Why was John told NOT to seal his scroll because "the time is near" if it was really 2,000 years away (and still counting)?

Don't you realize how foolish that sounds?

 

[tetelestai]

(Rev 16:8) “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.”

Josephus – “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5)

According to Whitestone, the above is just a coincidence.

 

[whitestone]

Ok.

And?

I don't need to pinpoint the exact year John was given the Revelation, nor am I able to do so.

It's very easy to see that the Revelation was given to John before 66AD because the events prophesied in the Revelation began to be fulfilled then.

You on the other hand are hellbent on trying to "prove" the Revelation was written after 70AD for no other reason other than to prove Preterism wrong.

Why was John told NOT to seal his scroll because "the time is near" if it was really 2,000 years away (and still counting)?

Don't you realize how foolish that sounds?

And as you said between the years ad56 and ad66 there is a beast in the same book you are quoting,,,in Revelation 17:8 KJV that has already received it's deadly wound and an angel is telling you that between ad56 and ad66 will ascend out of the bottomless pit and all of those who receive the mark will be deceived by it.

Now you again can account for Rome(not in the pit/active government),,,not Jerusalem(has not yet fell),,,ect. prove your math. That is it is in the pit between ad56-ad66 in the Revelation,,,you say before the fall of Jerusalem.

Now in Revelation in what ever year it is written that very beast has already received it's deadly wound. Now you also say Rome still exist,and Jerusalem has not yet fallen,yet you have Jerusalem receiving it's mark and the angel telling you it has not yet ascended out of the pit.,,,,do the math for us

 

[whitestone]

(Rev 16:8) “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.”

Josephus – “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5)

According to Whitestone, the above is just a coincidence.

this will haunt you,,but thank you for it.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Acts 1:7 is about knowing the exact date and time.

Jesus said the following:

(Matt 24:33) Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

As we see above, Jesus told His disciples that there would be signs for when the things would happen.

We also find the following in Revelation:

(Rev 22:10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

You want us to believe that "the time is near" means 2,000 years.

The time is near when men see the signs happening which Jesus was telling them would occur.


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[tetelestai]

The time is near when men see the signs happening which Jesus was telling them would occur.

That's correct.

Jesus told them the following:

(Luke 21:20) “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

The signs began when the Roman General Cestius Gallus surrounded Jerusalem in 66AD. After surrounding the city for about five days Gallus retreated to the coast for no explainable reason. The Christians in the city fled to the mountains before Vespasian and Titus returned to destroy it for good in 70AD.

"The members of the Jerusalem church by means of an oracle, given by revelation to acceptable persons there, were ordered to leave the city before the war began and settle in a town in Peraea called Pella." Eusebius, Book III, 5:4

"It then happened that Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world." - Josephus, Wars, II, XIX, 6,7

 

[ClimateSanity]

Now your saying that the signs were already occurring and john received the Revelation after the end was ongoing and was visible when the Revelation was received ,before the signs ,as a warning or after?

Trying to get the same story out of him everytime is like trying to pin down jello.