ECT MADists don't follow Paul

[ClimateSanity]

I can show Preterist teachings from Irenaeus, that are older than the teachings of Clement of Alexandria:

"The Holy Spirit, through whom the prophets prophesied, and the fathers learned the things of God, and the righteous were led forth into the way of righteousness; and who in the end of the times was poured out in a new way upon mankind in all the earth, renewing man unto God.." - "Against Heresies," Book IV, Chapter 34

In what way is this teaching preterism?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

In your mind......nowhere else.

True. TeT is Nuts!

 

[tetelestai]

but how about post #428,,did you know that the father of preterm was a Gnostic named Clement of Alexandria?

How could Clement of Alexandria be the father of preterism if Irenaeus and others taught Preterism before him?

 

[tetelestai]

In what way is this teaching preterism?

Irenaeus described the pouring out of the Holy Spirit during "the end of the times".

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Irenaeus described the pouring out of the Holy Spirit during "the end of the times".

What about Pedonia?

 

[whitestone]

How could Clement of Alexandria be the father of preterism if Irenaeus and others taught Preterism before him?

You should have researched the term "economy" when you were A2D and read all of A.H. 1-5 then you would not confuse him using "end if times" with preterit-ism then you would realize he was saying "end of disp./times" and the beginning of this dispensation.

 

[tetelestai]

You should have researched the term "economy" when you were A2D and read all of A.H. 1-5 then you would not confuse him using "end if times" with preterit-ism then you would realize he was saying "end of disp./times" and the beginning of this dispensation.

That's not what he was saying.

He was comparing the two covenants (old & new).

The Holy Spirit was given during "the end of the times". That lines up perfect with what Paul said (" for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come."), and how the writer of Hebrews described it ("these last days")

Pretty much all of Christendom (even A2D's) believe the NC was put in place, and is in place today. Only Hyper-Dispensationalists deny the NC was put in place.

 

[tetelestai]

"If any one, however, advocating the cause of the Jews, does maintain that this new covenant consisted in the rearing of that temple which was built under Zerubbabel after the emigration to Babylon, and in the departure of the people from thence after the lapse of seventy years, let him know that the temple constructed of stones was indeed then rebuilt (for as yet that law was observed which had been made upon tables of stone), yet no new covenant was given, but they used the Mosaic law until the coming of the Lord; but from the Lord's advent, the new covenant which brings back peace, and the law which gives life, has gone forth over the whole earth," - Against Heresies," Book IV, Chapter 34

Only Hyper-Dispensationalists deny the New Covenant.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

MADists claim to be followers of Paul.

They claim Paul was given his very own gospel (different than the one Peter taught) by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ.

No one is disputing that Paul was taught by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ, the dispute is whether or not is was a different gospel than the one Peter taught.

Paul did the following right after he began preaching his gospel to the Gentiles:

(Gal 2:2) I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.

Why did Paul go back to Jerusalem and meet in private with the leaders in Jerusalem to see if what he was preaching to the Gentiles was in vain or not?

How would these leaders (who MAD claim were in the "kingdom program"), know if the gospel Paul preached was correct or not?

MAD's claim that Paul preached a different gospel is incorrect.

:chuckle:

Galatians 2
2 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.



Acts 15
15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.



Paul went up to stop this:


15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

 

[whitestone]

That's not what he was saying.

He was comparing the two covenants (old & new).

The Holy Spirit was given during "the end of the times". That lines up perfect with what Paul said (" for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come."), and how the writer of Hebrews described it ("these last days")

Pretty much all of Christendom (even A2D's) believe the NC was put in place, and is in place today. Only Hyper-Dispensationalists deny the NC was put in place.

here lets all look at it A.H. 4.3 in the sentence right before what you quote "dispensations" http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103434.htm

 

[tetelestai]

:chuckle:

Galatians 2
2 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.



Acts 15
15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.



Paul went up to stop this:


15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

What makes you think Gal 2:2 and Acts 15 are the same meeting?

Gal 2:2 is a private meeting, Acts 15 is a public meeting.

 

[tetelestai]

here lets all look at it A.H. 4.3 in the sentence right before what you quote "dispensations" http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103434.htm

I didn't quote "dispensations".

Here is the sentence before the paragraph I quoted:

"Therefore the prophets spoke not of any one else but of the Lord, in whom all these aforesaid tokens concurred."

What does that have to do with the New Covenant or Preterism?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

What makes you think Gal 2:2 and Acts 15 are the same meeting?

Gal 2:2 is a private meeting, Acts 15 is a public meeting.

Excellent point.

Dispy's are so caught up in time that they cannot even contemplate what time of day it is.

The private meeting was held first,maybe even the same day.

It seemed good unto us and the Holy Spirit, which means that Paul and Barnabas had their meeting first in private before they called the rest.

 

[whitestone]

I didn't quote "dispensations".

Here is the sentence before the paragraph I quoted:

"Therefore the prophets spoke not of any one else but of the Lord, in whom all these aforesaid tokens concurred."

What does that have to do with the New Covenant or Preterism?

lol,,,thats why I posted the link so all could find dispensations,,,

what happened to Clement of Alex., don't want to talk about the father of preterism being a Gnostic?,,,post 438

 

[john w]

Ephraim The Syrian (technically Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian) taught that Christians would escape the tribulation through death, not a "rapture".

The document Little Johnny W the Dance Director is referring to is "Sermon on the End of the World" by Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian.

The document was originally written in Syrian, then translated to Greek, then translated to Latin.

Dispensationalists use the Latin version which says the following:

"For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

Now, in reading the above with no context, it does sound like pre-trib rapture doctrine.

However, when we look at the original Syrian version (Ephraim was Syrian, not Latin), we find the same passage says the following:

"Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!"

As we see above, Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian taught that the Christians would escape the tribulation by death.

Other passages in the document say the following:

"Then the Evil One will become enraged With the saints at that time; He will draw his terrible sword And sever the necks of the righteous ones."

"Nation will rise up against nation, And kingdom against kingdom. Lawlessness will be sovereign on earth And the defiled will pursue after the saints."

Does the above two statements sound like rapture doctrine? Does it sound Pre-Trib?

When Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian's document is read in its entirety, and in context, it is very easy to see that there is no trace of what Darby invented (the rapture).

Rapture adherents are so desperate for something to show the rapture heresy existed before Darby, they do desperate things.

Keep trying Little Johnny, but you won't find Darby's rapture before Darby invented it, no matter how hard you Darby Followers want to.

You made that up and plagiarized it, you pathetic sissy, and unemployed piece of dung. You were shown the quotes, re, the catching away, but satan, your farther, and your domestic partner, keeps telling you to deny it.

"Little Johnny W the Dance Director... Little Johnny, "-sodomite Craigie

Did your domestic partner, named "Johnny," put you up to that "Dance Director" "homosexual accusation, you admitted sodomite?

Did you tell everyone, on TOL, that you've admitted that you are a sodomite, you unemployed, effeminate wimp?

Craigie PM'ed me, admitting to me, that he is a sodomite, going through a divorce.



You piece of dung, sissy, piece of blubber, Clay Aiken clone.


Get a job, you sponge, leech.

 

[john w]

More deception by the desperate Darby follower Little Johnny W the Dance Director.

First off, the quote you give above is from Treatise VII, which is called "On the Mortality". HERE

You should read the opening paragraph, it talks about the diseases and deaths that were taking place at that time.

The quote you gave, when taken in context, is referring to individuals who were getting sick and dying, NOT a rapture of the church.

Here is what the preceding verse of the quote you gave says:

" laying aside the fear of death, let us think on the immortality which follows. By this let us show ourselves to be what we believe, that we do not grieve over the departure of those dear to us (previous deaths), and that when the day of our summons shall arrive (we get deadly infection), we come without delay and without resistance to the Lord when He Himself calls us.”.


Again, the context is about disease, sickness, and dying, NOT a secret rapture of the church.

Also, whatever Dispensational website you got the quote from misquotes Cyprian. Your quote says "early departure", that is not correct, the correct document says "earlier departure", meaning getting sick and dying from disease earlier than planned, NOT a secret rapture of the church.

Little Johnny, you should really do some research before you blindly go to a Dispensational website and copy and paste something out of context to support your rapture heresy.

Like mystery boy, you're really embarrassing yourself.

No, it's not-it's about the rapture, you flaming, "homosexual," sodomite.. And you plagiarized that, plagiarizer.

"boy..."Johnny"

You would not say that to our face, you girlie "man," sissy,you effeminate wimp.

 

[john w]

Nope.

A lot of people have tried, so far no one has been able to.

Dispensationalism on the other hand can be 100% traced to John Nelson Darby only.

Satanic. You were given the quotes, satanic one. Your father the devil, says. "Deny it, my child."

Your dung permeates TOL, wimp.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

No, it's not-it's about the rapture, you flaming, "homosexual," sodomite.. And you plagiarized that, plagiarizer.

"boy..."Johnny"

You would not say that to our face, you girlie "man," sissy You effeminate wimp.

Plagiarized or not it exposes the tampering that went on by the Dispy site you plagiarized.

 

[john w]

I've not only searched myself, I have seen others try on TOL.



They can't

I just showed Little Johnny W the Dance Director tried in vain with Cyprian HERE, and Ephraim The Syrian HERE

Darby's false teachings don't exist before Darby, no matter how hard you Dispies want them to.

You've been shown, quote, after quote, but your father, the Devil, tells you to deny it, sodomite, flaming homo.

 

[john w]

Looks like like ole Ivan Drago aka Johnny W just hit the mat.

Down goes Johnny

The junkie, who is ignored by most, chimes in.

Nice, junkie. Nice issing your "gay" unemployed, wimpy buddy Craigie Tettie's ___. Was it good for you?