ECT MADists don't follow Paul

W

whitestone

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
That's my point.

Preterism can be traced all the way back to the early church by different men.

Unlike Dispensationalism that all begins with Darby in the mid 1800's, and has not one trace in the early church.
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maybe you should back up to post 413 and read it. you said many have tried to trace preterm but could (not),,,but where would you go with it Louis de Alcazar,Eusebius,clement of alex.?
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
tetelestai said:
I've not only searched myself, I have seen others try on TOL.



They can't

I just showed Little Johnny W the Dance Director tried in vain with Cyprian HERE, and Ephraim The Syrian HERE

Darby's false teachings don't exist before Darby, no matter how hard you Dispies want them to.
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I think you misunderstood both Ephraim and Cyprian. A closed biased mind tends to do that.

What TOL people have not been able to find is not any kind of indicator of why anyone else has been able to find.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
ClimateSanity said:
I think you misunderstood both Ephraim and Cyprian. A closed biased mind tends to do that.
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Cyprian wrote about believers getting sick and going to be with the Lord earlier than planned.

It's an absolute joke that Dispensational websites take Cyprian's words out of context to show Darby's rapture was preached before Darby.

All it does is show how desperate Darby Followers are, and how low they stoop to in defending Darby's false teachings.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
tetelestai said:
Cyprian wrote about believers getting sick and going to be with the Lord earlier than planned.

It's an absolute joke that Dispensational websites take Cyprian's words out of context to show Darby's rapture was preached before Darby.

All it does is show how desperate Darby Followers are, and how low they stoop to in defending Darby's false teachings.
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So says you......big deal
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
whitestone said:
ok,,,from the preterits archive http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/clement-of-alexandria.html here are the words of the Gnostic/Platoist Clement of Alexandria ,,,, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04045a.htm

but then you've tied your own self to Gnosticism,,, but now the names are loose and many will simply google it and read.
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I can show Preterist teachings from Irenaeus, that are older than the teachings of Clement of Alexandria:

"The Holy Spirit, through whom the prophets prophesied, and the fathers learned the things of God, and the righteous were led forth into the way of righteousness; and who in the end of the times was poured out in a new way upon mankind in all the earth, renewing man unto God.." - "Against Heresies," Book IV, Chapter 34
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
tetelestai said:
Ephraim The Syrian (technically Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian) taught that Christians would escape the tribulation through death, not a "rapture".

The document Little Johnny W the Dance Director is referring to is "Sermon on the End of the World" by Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian.

The document was originally written in Syrian, then translated to Greek, then translated to Latin.

Dispensationalists use the Latin version which says the following:

"For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

Now, in reading the above with no context, it does sound like pre-trib rapture doctrine.

However, when we look at the original Syrian version (Ephraim was Syrian, not Latin), we find the same passage says the following:

"Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!"

As we see above, Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian taught that the Christians would escape the tribulation by death.

Other passages in the document say the following:

"Then the Evil One will become enraged With the saints at that time; He will draw his terrible sword And sever the necks of the righteous ones."

"Nation will rise up against nation, And kingdom against kingdom. Lawlessness will be sovereign on earth And the defiled will pursue after the saints."

Does the above two statements sound like rapture doctrine? Does it sound Pre-Trib?

When Pseudo Ephraim The Syrian's document is read in its entirety, and in context, it is very easy to see that there is no trace of what Darby invented (the rapture).

Rapture adherents are so desperate for something to show the rapture heresy existed before Darby, they do desperate things.

Keep trying Little Johnny, but you won't find Darby's rapture before Darby invented it, no matter how hard you Darby Followers want to.
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More deception by the desperate Darby follower Little Johnny W the Dance Director.

First off, the quote you give above is from Treatise VII, which is called "On the Mortality". HERE

You should read the opening paragraph, it talks about the diseases and deaths that were taking place at that time.

The quote you gave, when taken in context, is referring to individuals who were getting sick and dying, NOT a rapture of the church.

Here is what the preceding verse of the quote you gave says:

" laying aside the fear of death, let us think on the immortality which follows. By this let us show ourselves to be what we believe, that we do not grieve over the departure of those dear to us (previous deaths), and that when the day of our summons shall arrive (we get deadly infection), we come without delay and without resistance to the Lord when He Himself calls us.”.


Again, the context is about disease, sickness, and dying, NOT a secret rapture of the church.

Also, whatever Dispensational website you got the quote from misquotes Cyprian. Your quote says "early departure", that is not correct, the correct document says "earlier departure", meaning getting sick and dying from disease earlier than planned, NOT a secret rapture of the church.

Little Johnny, you should really do some research before you blindly go to a Dispensational website and copy and paste something out of context to support your rapture heresy.

Like mystery boy, you're really embarrassing yourself.
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Looks like like ole Ivan Drago(n) aka Johnny W just hit the mat.

Down goes Johnny
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
1Mind1Spirit said:
Looks like like ole Ivan Drago(n) aka Johnny W just hit the mat.
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It won't stop Little Johnny W the Dance Director, or the other Darby Followers.

They have chosen to go down with the ship defending Darby's false teachings, rather than admitting they are wrong.
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
I can show Preterist teachings from Irenaeus, that are older than the teachings of Clement of Alexandria:

"The Holy Spirit, through whom the prophets prophesied, and the fathers learned the things of God, and the righteous were led forth into the way of righteousness; and who in the end of the times was poured out in a new way upon mankind in all the earth, renewing man unto God.." - "Against Heresies," Book IV, Chapter 34
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but how about post #428,,did you know that the father of preterm was a Gnostic named Clement of Alexandria? what of his student Origen do you believe in reincarnation also as he? ,,

,,I thought this whole while you knew the father of preterit was a Gnostic but you didn't know,lol
 
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