beloved57
Well-known member
In Jn 11:52 who does Christs death gather in ?
Limited atonement !
- Thread starter beloved57
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John 11:52..."And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."
As the scripture says, Christ's death would gather together the children of God from around the world.
Just as it is still doing, thanks be to God.
beloved57
Well-known member
I didnt ask you to copy the verse. But who does the verse say that Christ death gathers in ?
He answered your question. You're not fully reading what people are saying.
Same as before..."As the scripture (John 11:52), says, Christ's death would gather together the children of God from around the world.
I'm sure glad I am now a child of God.
And Jesus isn't ashamed to call me "brother"...(Heb 2:11)
There is not a verse in the Bible that says God does not want to save every sinner because He wants to burn many in hell instead.
beloved57
Well-known member
Sure he gave me a response, thats it. Who does the verse say Christ gathered in by His death ?
He answered your question. Why do you deny it?
He answered the question in post #222. If you can't see it, then you need to get your eyes checked, or at the very least, stop covering them up.
Jesus would gather the whole world together if only they would come when He calls.
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Jesus is talking about Israel there (no, not the Body of Christ, B57), but "they would not!"
ByGraceAlone
New member
"For God SO LOVES the entire human race WITHOUT EXCEPTION, that He sent His Unique Son, that those from this human race will repent of their sins, and believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord, will never be lost, but have eternal life" My Paraphrase
beloved57
Well-known member
Obtained Eternal Redemption for us !
Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
We can perceive from this scripture that Christ could not have shed His Redeeming Blood for all mankind, since those He did shed His Own Blood For [His Church Acts 20:28] He for them obtained Eternal Redemption.
This Eternal Redemption isnt conditioned upon mans freewill or man having to make a decision, its totally based upon Christs Own Blood. This is something Christ had success in, what He set out to do. The word obtained in our text is the word heyriskō and it means:
I find, learn, discover, especially after searching.
And its in the middle voice, meaning its obtained for Himself and His Body whom Hes One with Heb 2:11
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
And this what He obtained redemption lytrōsis
And we know all men without exception have not been delivered from the penalty of sin ! So Christ could not have shed His Own Blood for them !
Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
We can perceive from this scripture that Christ could not have shed His Redeeming Blood for all mankind, since those He did shed His Own Blood For [His Church Acts 20:28] He for them obtained Eternal Redemption.
This Eternal Redemption isnt conditioned upon mans freewill or man having to make a decision, its totally based upon Christs Own Blood. This is something Christ had success in, what He set out to do. The word obtained in our text is the word heyriskō and it means:
I find, learn, discover, especially after searching.
And its in the middle voice, meaning its obtained for Himself and His Body whom Hes One with Heb 2:11
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
And this what He obtained redemption lytrōsis
- a ransoming, redemption
- deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
And we know all men without exception have not been delivered from the penalty of sin ! So Christ could not have shed His Own Blood for them !
If Jesus supposedly saved all the 'chosen' Christians at the moment of His death then what did He mean for Nicodemus to do in response to Hid statement in John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
beloved57
Well-known member
Your question is as per ususal a rabbit trail. All the elect of God are born spiritually dead in sin like any other sinner, and its not until one is born again wil they be able to hear and understand the Gospel of their Salvation. Thats why regeneration is before Faith. Only those whom Christ died for shall be regenerated so they can believe.
Derf
Well-known member
Your answer, of course, is a dead end. There's no good news in your gospel. If you aren't saved, you might never be. If you think you are, you might not be. It all depends on the whims of a God that decided before you were born to dangle the forbidden fruit of eternal life before your eyes, then send you to hell because it is His pleasure to do so.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel was never intended to be good news to everyone. Its a savor of life unto life to some, thats good news, but a savor of death unto death for some, its not good news to them 2 Cor 2:14-16
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
For instance the Truth of limited atonement in the Gospel is not good news to most people, yet limited atonement states that Christs death was a success and saved all Gods Elect !
Right Divider
Body part
You don't even know what "elect" means in the Bible.
Derf
Well-known member
People that were never going to be lost don't need good news, because they never were in danger.
I am not following. Do you think some sinners are born saved?