Justification of Eternal Punishment

[Word based mystic]

And you ignore Jesus' own words that need no interpretation: "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43 (KJV)

Do something with that instead of ignoring it like it isn't there for us to take as being what the lake of fire will be like?

Again I ask, are you an SDA?

yup the fire is eternal

where does it say the soul is eternal

fire either conumes or purifies.

and to compliment your scripture which is quite plain

matthew 10:28 shows the end result of the eternal fire destroying and consuming
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

quite simple and plain and affirms the meaning of perish, destroy, vanish, cease to be forever.

 

[Word based mystic]

CR what is an SDA???

soul destroyers anonymous?? just kidding

i dont know what that is..

 

[Cross Reference]

CR what is an SDA???

soul destroyers anonymous?? just kidding

i dont know what that is..

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

Whether you are or not, what is the problem for believing the fire will not be quenched, per God's word: ' . . . . . "if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43 (KJV)? Doesn't that agree with the account of the rich man and Lazarus?
And this account of things as they will be, as well per Rev 14:11 KJV.

 

[Timotheos]

Again I ask, are you an SDA?

You haven't told me yet if you are a muslim. Muslims believe in eternal conscious torment.

 

[way 2 go]

Fire requires fuel, heat, air. If the fuel or air is impeded the fire is not quenched, it simply dies out.

natural laws do not apply to the lake of fire

 

[Cross Reference]

You haven't told me yet if you are a muslim. Muslims believe in eternal conscious torment.

So do Christians.

 

[Timotheos]

So do Christians.

Does that mean you are a Muslim or not?
Regular Christians also believe that the wages of sin is death, so why do you assume someone is SDA if they believe that the wages of sin is death?

If sharing a belief with Seventh Day Adventists makes a person a SDA, then sharing a belief with Muslims must make you a Muslim. Otherwise why you ask WBM if he is SDA?

Your question is not valid. You are attempting to "poison the well". I might as well say "Adolf Hitler believed in eternal conscious torment in hell (which is actually true) so ECT is false."

 

[Timotheos]

CR what is an SDA???

soul destroyers anonymous?? just kidding

i dont know what that is..

He is attempting to link you to a Christian group that he doesn't like in an attempt to discredit you since he can't actually prove that you are wrong. It is a tactic known as "Poisoning the Well" and it is what people do when they have lost the debate. Ask him if he is Catholic.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

What little we know of hell shows me that it is either this or worms don't actually eat flesh, they just chew on it and flames don't actually destroy flesh, they just torment it; either way: it takes place. The rich man in hell was able to speak to Abraham, so I imagine one or the other is taking place right now.They perish, for eternity, in agony of flames.Are you?

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

That refers to a time shortly after Christ returns and is not referring to hell.

So forget about using this verse.

Also forget about using the rich man and Lazarus because the account shows the first resurrection has past, but not the second of the last judgment.

LA

 

[Word based mystic]

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

Whether you are or not, what is the problem for believing the fire will not be quenched, per God's word: ' . . . . . "if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43 (KJV)? Doesn't that agree with the account of the rich man and Lazarus?
And this account of things as they will be, as well per Rev 14:11 KJV.

oh. nope not a sda

i see the fire is never quenched
nowhere do i see the soul is imperishable
or indestructible.

just the opposite.

i will go through isaiah 33 in reference to the fire
and who can stand in the fire and not be consumed and who can't

i would like to also discuss the eternal aspect of the fire that reflects God substance in isaiah 33 and other places that shows God consuming his enemies with fire out of His mouth.

the only thing specifically stated that has no end in scripture is Gods kingdom and those in His Kingdom.

all other powers and things shall pass away.
cease to be forever or perish by fire.

 

[Word based mystic]

What little we know of hell shows me that it is either this or worms don't actually eat flesh, they just chew on it and flames don't actually destroy flesh, they just torment it; either way: it takes place. The rich man in hell was able to speak to Abraham, so I imagine one or the other is taking place right now.They perish, for eternity, in agony of flames.Are you?

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

yup they do perish (appollumi) to utterly destroy
or like matthew 10:28 says.

you ((add)) that they will be in agony of flames never ending
eternity is to the end of the age not never ending yup they will be in agony for as long as the flame is designed to bring the 2nd death and destroy or perish. so many words to ignore or redefine.

you add never ending

ever = till the end of the age period of time also can be defined as within the messianic age relating to the present earth.

you assign the wicked soul as having regenerative life
or you assign the wicked soul as being constantly resurrected for another round of torture.
or maybe you assign the soul with powers of reincarnation

either way it is a character of and definition of eternal life..

you add suppositions and speculations to affirm your ect
and change meanings of words quite often to mean exactly the opposite

death now means life
destruction means regeneration
forever now means never ending (not till the end of the age)

try that out with lucifers destruction in ezekiel 28:18
(cease to be forever)

or explain away matt 10:28 body and soul to be destroyed by God

As if God is not capable of destroying body and soul. referring to kill.
now you give it the exact opposite meaning implying GOD empowers the soul to regenerate after each destruction and doesn't actually do what it plainly says kill, destroy body and soul after the judgement.

eternal life life that is permanent and indestructible
eternal destruction, perish destroy, 2nd death = wicked are destroyed permanently no chance of life again = death.

 

[Cross Reference]

Does that mean you are a Muslim or not?
Regular Christians also believe that the wages of sin is death, so why do you assume someone is SDA if they believe that the wages of sin is death?

If sharing a belief with Seventh Day Adventists makes a person a SDA, then sharing a belief with Muslims must make you a Muslim. Otherwise why you ask WBM if he is SDA?

Your question is not valid. You are attempting to "poison the well". I might as well say "Adolf Hitler believed in eternal conscious torment in hell (which is actually true) so ECT is false."

. . . . . and your questions asked of me are stupid as in, without knowledge.

 

[Cross Reference]

oh. nope not a sda

i see the fire is never quenched
nowhere do i see the soul is imperishable
or indestructible.

In the image of God we were created. God has a soul. It cannot die.
God breathed in the nostrils of man and man became a living soul __ after the image of God. Therefore when speaking of eternal things, the words destroy, destruction, everlasting, consuming, dying, darkness, etc., take on a whole different meaning. Why? Because the soul is eternal, God is life and separation from Him is death.. His holiness permits only the substance of Himself to enter into it. Ergo, those outside it have not life. For now, the opportunity remains for man to repent and become of God's substance. There is a time frame however, for when that time is exhausted, all outside Him will be cast into surroundings where God can't ever be found again, where life as He purposed for the soul of man, will never be because, His Life cannot exist in darkness that man might be able to appeal his damnation.
,
So to sum up for understanding: One day righteous man will enter into the Paradise of God which beggars the question, "Where do the unrighteous go?" Simple answer: "Where God can't ever be found".
If God is ultimate Love the opposite of that can only be, Ultimate hate [gnashing of teeth]. If God is ultimate Light, the opposite of that would be ultimate darkness; Ultimate Joy, never ending despair-depression; ultimate loving relationships with folk, never ending aloneness/caged solitude; Ultimate song, never ending screaming. I hope you get my drift.

They are just some of the absolutes God cannot change because they are contrasts He cannot change. God is unchanging and therefore to say God punishes is a misnomer. Man's destination is a result of his choices when alive in his body within the dispensation of time allowed him.

just the opposite.

i will go through isaiah 33 in reference to the fire
and who can stand in the fire and not be consumed and who can't

i would like to also discuss the eternal aspect of the fire that reflects God substance in isaiah 33 and other places that shows God consuming his enemies with fire out of His mouth.

the only thing specifically stated that has no end in scripture is Gods kingdom and those in His Kingdom.

all other powers and things shall pass away.
cease to be forever or perish by fire.

Your obstinacy is showing.

 

[Timotheos]

In the image of God we were created. God has a soul. It cannot die.

According to the Bible, a soul CAN die.

Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. Ezekiel 18:4 ESV

Not only CAN a soul die, but the Bible specifically states that "the soul who sins SHALL die."

Jesus also said that a soul can be destroyed.
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 ESV

 

[Timotheos]

. . . . . and your questions asked of me are stupid as in, without knowledge.

It was stupid of me to ask if you were a Muslim just because you believe in eternal conscious torment just like they do, just as stupid as it was when you did it. I only asked if you were a Muslim to illustrate my point. Truth is not determined by WHO also believes it. I was stupid of you to ask if WBM is an SDA. Stupid as in, without knowledge.

I'm glad we cleared that up, and now you won't be using the guilt by association fallacy any longer, will you. Good. You may leave my office.

 

[Cross Reference]

It was stupid of me to ask if you were a Muslim . . . .

Thank you. It is always good to read an apology from one who has made a mistake.

 

[way 2 go]

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

That refers to a time shortly after Christ returns and is not referring to hell.

So forget about using this verse.

:nono:
don't forget about Rev 14:10

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:12
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Also forget about using the rich man and Lazarus because the account shows the first resurrection has past, but not the second of the last judgment.

LA

don't forget about Lazarus and the rich man as it teaches truth:

the spirit of the rich man is not burned up in the fire
the rich man is able to carry on a conversation while in the fire
the rich man is in torment / Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment

Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'

:idea:
If you want to forget about verses
how about the ones that refer to perishing from the earth as
that is not what we are writing about.

 

[Timotheos]

Thank you. It is always good to read an apology from one who has made a mistake.

No problem. I admit that asking you if you are a Muslim is just as stupid as you asking if another poster is an SDA.

BTW, are you Mormon? Mormons believe in Eternal Conscious Torture in Hell, the same as you. If you aren't a Muslim, perhaps you are a Mormon. Am I correct in this assumption?

 

[Timotheos]

Again I ask, are you an SDA?

Adolf Hitler believed in eternal conscious torment in Hell.
Are you Adolf Hitler?

 

[Cross Reference]

No problem. I admit that asking you if you are a Muslim is just as stupid as you asking if another poster is an SDA.

You only show your ignorance by not knowing what a Seventh Day Adventist believes, soul sleep being one of them. Total physical destruction of the wicked being but another. So to say one is a SDA is not slanderous. Hope you learned something by this.