Justification of Eternal Punishment

[meshak]

Yet this is projection into a future time. We enjoy the kingdom of heaven here and NOW, in Spirit -

Future dispensations will unfold bringing various stages or degrees of perfection or order,...yes....but the Spirit of God within us, and its omnipresence is 'heaven already'

We don't have peaceful world. It is filled with hate, wars, poverty and diseases.

When the God's kingdom starts, we will have peaceful, loving and perfect world on earth as it is heaven.

 

[Angel4Truth]

According to JWs, 144,000 thousands are elect and they live in heaven with God and Jesus and reign the earth with Jesus for thousand years..

And rest of the saved ones will live on paradise earth peacefully with eternal life.

This is all their conclusion.

We will have to see who is reading the Bible right in His time.

We can see who is reading the bible right, right now:

The 144,000
are JEWS sealed on this earth, not in heaven:

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

then after that of those is heaven:

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Learn how to read. Its so specific about this, you cant miss it unless you just want to make up something else.

 

[way 2 go]

eternal punishment is not eternal torture alive.

good grief.

get real, dude.

You misrepresent God as hideous monster. It is a grave sin to do that. I believe in God because He is love.

The Bible says God is love. You don't seem to believe that.

Your god is not loving god.

you only read the verses you agree with and try to explain
away verses you do not like

Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'


Jos 6:20
Jos 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword.

Jos 8:25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai.
Jos 8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

Jos 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

Gen 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them."

 

[meshak]

you only read the verses you agree with and try to explain
away verses you do not like

Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'


Jos 6:20
Jos 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword.

Jos 8:25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai.
Jos 8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

Jos 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

Gen 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them."

Your reading is all out of context. Mine is within context.

Your god is monstrous god.

the Bible says God is love, not monstrous or hideous. that's why your reasoning is perverted, out of context with the Bible's God.

 

[way 2 go]

You didn't answer my objection.

The verse doesn't say that their torment is forever. You explained how you could read your doctrine into the verse, but the verse still doesn't say that their torment is forever.

I think I also asked you to explain why God never told anyone about eternal torture before 80 AD when the Apocalypse was written. You never bothered to answer that. If I am required to believe that God tortures people, it hinders my belief that God kept his divine plan of torture secret for 5000 years. This question MUST be answered, if you want to make any progress in converting me to torturism.

not opinion sentence structure
if they are not there then it is not the the smoke of their torment

 

[way 2 go]

It's always the same tired objections that have been answered a thousand times before. Don't ECTists ever listen? Do you ever learn?
I guess not.

Don't the non-ECTists ever listen? Do you ever learn?
I guess not.

Once again, Those of us who believe what the Bible says, that the wicked will be destroyed, believe that they go away into eternal punishment. The wicked are destroyed, and they remain destroyed forever.

destroyed from the earth ,sure

But look at the verse you posted to try to make us believe that EVERYONE gets eternal life, some in heaven and some in hellish torture. It specifically says that only ONE of the groups gets to have eternal life. This means the other group does not receive eternal life. In order for your doctrine to be true, those who are eternally tortured in hell would also have to have eternal life in hell, and Jesus said only the other group will have eternal life. The passage you use to "prove" ECTism actually proves that ECTism is a false doctrine.

how you read it:
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
but one with God



dead yet alive :think:

You didn't answer my objection.
I think I also asked you to explain why God never told anyone about eternal torture before 80 AD

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[Arthur Brain]

Once again, I wonder if those of you who advocate the notion of the interminable suffering of other people (let's face it, it's always other people) - were actually witness to such pain if any sort of empathy and compassion would kick in.

lain:

 

[Angel4Truth]

I don't understand this question. OF COURSE more than 144,000 people will receive eternal life by faith in Jesus Christ. Who is claiming otherwise?

meshak, who i was adressing my post to, shes JW

 

[way 2 go]

Your reading is all out of context. Mine is within context.

:sherlock:

Your god is monstrous god.

Gen 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them."

the Bible says God is love, not monstrous or hideous. that's why your reasoning is perverted, out of context with the Bible's God.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

 

[Arthur Brain]

Gen 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them."

So when's that going to be happening then?

 

[patrick jane]

So when's that going to be happening then?

any day now. comparatively -

 

[meshak]

:sherlock:



Gen 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them."

blotting out is not torturing in the fire eternity.

get real.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

That still is not saying they will be tortured eternity.

You cannot fool anyone with this kind of childish talk.

Grow up.

 

[meshak]

So when's that going to be happening then?

Why do you ask him? He does not know what he is talking about. He is parroting what his church is teaching them.

You need to know the Bible, both NT and OT, say God is love.

Think about it, friend.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Why do you ask him? He does not know what he is talking about. He is parroting what his church is teaching them.

You need to know the Bible, both NT and OT, say God is love.

Think about it, friend.

I'm asking him somewhat sarcastically...

 

[Aimiel]

eternal punishment is not eternal torture alive.

good grief.

Jesus said: "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." If all that happens in judgment is that people are put to death for being sinners, then how could what a man does to offend a 'little one' of Christ cause punishment that would make death by drowning preferable? The only thing He was referring to is the eternal conscious torment taught by The Holy Scriptures.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Think about it, neighbor. :thumb:

 

[Arthur Brain]

any day now. comparatively -

Explain?

 

[way 2 go]

meshak, who i was adressing my post to, shes JW

I did not know that
at least she has an excuse for getting it wrong
her whole religion is based on the lie of them being
the 144000
Jw's not interested in the truth

 

[meshak]

Reason:
Quote:
The christian God is monstrous, hideous, and we are perverted?

Mods,

angel4truth reported this about my post.

She is distorting what I said.

I did not say Christian God is monstrous, hideous. I say their god is monstrous and hideouts because they claim God will torture non-believers for eternity. It is not biblical what's so ever because the Bible says God is love.

Not all Christian believe this kind of god.

Further more, Jesus says for God so love the world that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Non-believers will perish. Perish does not mean living in lake of fire and tortured eternity.

 

[way 2 go]

blotting out is not torturing in the fire eternity.
get real.

no it was a flood

Gen 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them."

That still is not saying they will be tortured eternity.
You cannot fool anyone with this kind of childish talk.
Grow up.

if they are not there then it is not the the smoke of their torment

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

 

[meshak]

I did not know that
at least she has an excuse for getting it wrong
her whole religion is based on the lie of them being
the 144000
Jw's not interested in the truth

You guys are something else. When you cannot refute biblically you resort to this kind of slandering.

You have been refuted over and over. You have lost long time ago.