Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Why? Why would a loving God need to save more than some set number in order to be a loving God? Explain.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
God doesnt 'need' to do anything for us. He has made promises and He doesnt lie. That only 144.000 will be saved is an unbiblical lie taught by the JWs.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
You said a 'Loving God' would save more than 144,000 people so that's on you, not the 'JW's. You then go on to say "only" 144,000 people being saved is a lie out of how many billions do you suppose? Perhaps you can empathize with those who think that a God that would burn people for 'eternity' is hardly loving now?
Seperation from the God you claim you dont want any part of.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Er, what? Seriously, are you just going to spam or actually answer the questions?
:AMR:
I dont think God burns people. So perhaps you need to take your questions to someone who does. Ive told you numerous times over the last couple years how i see it. Too bad you dont seem to ever remember.
That is my answer. The torment is self inflicted.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Ah, fair enough, you're one of those who thinks God doesn't actually burn people in a fire but leaves them in a state of inescapable suffering of some sort, brought on by themselves by not happening to believe while in a physical life before death and then doomed to suffer a rather hideous fate in the 'afterlife', is that about right?
What's bemusing to me is why God wouldn't just snuff all those billions of people out though. After all, if they still exist in some state they could potentially threaten your eternal bliss right? You've argued that 'hell' is 'loving' because it protects the 'saved' from any such threat so...?
:think:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Such a loving attitude I don't know where to end...
eternal punishment is not eternal torture alive.
good grief.
get real, dude.
You misrepresent God as hideous monster. It is a grave sin to do that. I believe in God because He is love.
The Bible says God is love. You don't seem to believe that.
Your god is not loving god.
I guess you don't understand the Conditionalist Doctrine. We don't believe the punishment of the wicked is only temporary. The wicked will be competely destroyed, and will remain destroyed for all eternity. This is permanent destruction, eternal punishment. Get it? So the argument that the same word, eternal, is used for those who are eternally destroyed and those who receive eternal life doesn't work. So, now that you understand that Conditionalists do not believe that the punishment of the wicked is only temporal, are you ready to come over to the Biblical Doctrine that the wicked will be destroyed? It's not that difficult. Eternal Life is Conditional on the condition that a person receive it from Jesus Christ by faith. The Doctrine Conditional Immortality is directly stated in the most familiar of all Bible Passages, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life." There is no reason not to believe what the Bible says.
Last edited:
I don't understand this question. OF COURSE more than 144,000 people will receive eternal life by faith in Jesus Christ. Who is claiming otherwise? Has anyone on this thread made the claim that only 144,000 will not perish but will receive eternal life? Are you attempting to link the Biblical Doctrine that the wages of sin is death to a certain cult? If so, shame on you. If you are attempting to link the Biblical Doctrine to a false religion, should I do the same to you? Have you purchaced enough indulgences to enter heaven? You should get over to your priest and buy a few more, just in case. You wouldn't want to burn alive in hell forever, or purgatory for however long it is you people think purgatory lasts.
It's always the same tired objections that have been answered a thousand times before. Don't ECTists ever listen? Do you ever learn?
I guess not.
Once again, Those of us who believe what the Bible says, that the wicked will be destroyed, believe that they go away into eternal punishment. The wicked are destroyed, and they remain destroyed forever. They never become UNdestroyed. Therefore the punishment is eternal, by anyone's definition. We all AGREE that the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, we just disagree on the FORM the punishment takes.
But look at the verse you posted to try to make us believe that EVERYONE gets eternal life, some in heaven and some in hellish torture. It specifically says that only ONE of the groups gets to have eternal life. This means the other group does not receive eternal life. In order for your doctrine to be true, those who are eternally tortured in hell would also have to have eternal life in hell, and Jesus said only the other group will have eternal life. The passage you use to "prove" ECTism actually proves that ECTism is a false doctrine.
You didn't answer my objection.
The verse doesn't say that their torment is forever. You explained how you could read your doctrine into the verse, but the verse still doesn't say that their torment is forever.
I think I also asked you to explain why God never told anyone about eternal torture before 80 AD when the Apocalypse was written. You never bothered to answer that. If I am required to believe that God tortures people, it hinders my belief that God kept his divine plan of torture secret for 5000 years. This question MUST be answered, if you want to make any progress in converting me to torturism.
this is true
According to JWs, 144,000 thousands are elect and they live in heaven with God and Jesus and reign the earth with Jesus for thousand years..
And rest of the saved ones will live on paradise earth peacefully with eternal life.
This is all their conclusion.
We will have to see who is reading the Bible right in His time.
And rest of the saved ones will live on paradise earth peacefully with eternal life.
This is all their conclusion.
We will have to see who is reading the Bible right in His time.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
True justice and mercy............
True justice and mercy............
I dont see how anyone can believe in ECT, when we've already shared the linguistics on the word 'aion' and its derivatives, besides the blarring immorality, injustice and insanity of a 'god' subjecting souls to eternal punishment TO NO END (on principle). I dont see a greater disservice to God's character than that.
~*~*~
Stop the insanity
True justice and mercy............
I dont see how anyone can believe in ECT, when we've already shared the linguistics on the word 'aion' and its derivatives, besides the blarring immorality, injustice and insanity of a 'god' subjecting souls to eternal punishment TO NO END (on principle). I dont see a greater disservice to God's character than that.
~*~*~
Stop the insanity
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
heaven already
heaven already
Yet this is projection into a future time. We enjoy the kingdom of heaven here and NOW, in Spirit
-
Future dispensations will unfold bringing various stages or degrees of perfection or order,...yes....but the Spirit of God within us, and its omnipresence is 'heaven already'
heaven already
Yet this is projection into a future time. We enjoy the kingdom of heaven here and NOW, in Spirit
- Future dispensations will unfold bringing various stages or degrees of perfection or order,...yes....but the Spirit of God within us, and its omnipresence is 'heaven already'